Creepy...

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 474 Location: Surrey, UK

Humm tricky. I have not encountered any social alienation except for the usual isolation any immigrant feels not being familar with new country. I do not try to agressively attack or defend a point of view, merely explain why something is the way it is. If I not understand, I say so. OK I know is different because women are perhap treated kinder than men but my impression is that most reasonable UK people are genuinely interested in China issues and are embarrassed by their mistakes in understanding. The only hostility I have encountered is really from Chinese men in China Town or within China itself even then it is a minority. Maybe I am lucky in my few friends but I genuinely enjoy discussing the differences between our countries and cultures. I feel proud to represent my culture and language (my "rolled tongue" Beijing version anyway :wink: ). Misunderstandings happen on both sides of the divide of language and culture but with goodwill they can be overcome. These differences make us human and are to be celebrated in my view.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 319

Hmmm, it's obvious your opinion on things differs from mine based on our experiences.

It's good that they're interested in China issues. I am too. But to use me as the default reference to all things China because of my ethnicity? Not acceptable. I wouldn't refer back to a Muslim every time I wanted to talk about the Glasgow bombings.

I've seen the men-women difference first hand too - it' clearly visible. A chinese woman at my workplace pretty much knows everything about the male colleagues - she just has to act passive and open and they will spill the beans on their life, wants and will go out their way to accomodate the "lovely oriental lady".

Meanwhile, whenever they want to talk about current events, they never want to hear my opinion - with the exception of China related issues - then it's "Oh, you're chinese- what do you think??"

In a way this qualifies as sexual discrimination - as it discriminates social exclusion not based on race, but on the sex of a particular race - but it's so subtle and obscure in the workplace, I'd be laughed at in court. By the white judge, no doubt.

bhyt · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 173

one thing non chinese friends tend to do is...if they see some chinese words they will automatically ask me 'what does that mean?' - fair enough since it is a natural thing to ask a chinese person, but people do seem to forget that i have spent my whole life living in the uk, thus i have been studying english more than cantonese.

Admittedly i probably get more frustrated out of embarrassment that i can't read the chinese characters, unless it's the basic and easily recognisable ones. (though now i've finished university, i'm going to study harder, i've learnt to write more chinese words from the mandarin course at uni)

Or if we are watching a movie-they will ask me to translate, which is arguably much easier than translating written text. though it is usually mandarin, and my mandarin skills are still at beginners level.

though the mandarin course was designed for western learners, since the textbook was based on tourism style vocabulary, most of which was useful, but i wanted to learn proper vocabulary. my lecturer tried to do a class for cantonese speakers because some of my chinese friends signed up too, but quit after the first lesson because it was too hard lol.

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 474 Location: Surrey, UK

I think Mandarin is beautiful language and I tell everyone is easy to learn due to the lack of all the complicated tenses and conditionals. Much more easy than English. When I was child I used to speak Canton but lost it when we moved North. Now I don't understand at all.

Big worry is that it takes about six months to start to lose your language in my experience particularly with a tonal language like Mandarin. Without constantly hearing the flow you lose the subtlety of the tones. Every time I return to China the first thing I hear is “singing.” Thousands of Chinese people talking at once. I love it and I feel at home and strangely happy.

A friend of mine learnt a lot of Mandarin from movies. She was quite fluent unfortunately her beautiful flowing Chinese consisted largely of phrases like: “I kill you in honour of my Master!” “Follow that car!” “Put down that sword, you are not worthy of it.” Sounded good though! :wink:

bhyt · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 173

i've learnt to sing along to some mandarin and canto songs, really useful in learning the languages, though most of the phrases in the songs are lovey dovey phrases which i probably won't ever use in everyday language but it's nice to hear lol.

i enjoy learning mandarin, there are some parts of the english language which are hard for people who don't speak english as a native tongue-for example the use of past tense etc.

some people thought because i spoke canto, that i would find mandarin easier, but it wasn't really, i was just more dedicated to learning mandarin. though admittedly the writing part of the exam was easy lol because it was a test to write the chinese numbers and basic chinese characters.

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 474 Location: Surrey, UK

Ha ha when I first come to UK I must have spent first six months speak nothing but present tense in first person singular. When I learn that in English there are tenses like "Second person past-historic" I am like "What! you have me on!"

Ahh lovey dovey phrases.. Let me see if I get these right? I think there are many ways to say "I love you." Try these. I hope the tones work here..

“liàn” express a longing for love
“Wò chǒng” is a mild form of love express between friends
“xǐ ài” express affection
“yǒu ài” is affectionate love
“shēn qíng” is a deep love
“Wò ài né” is I love you
“xīn téng” is to love with all your heart
“zhōng qíng” is madly in love
“zuò ài” is to make love
“ēn ài” is the mutual love between man and wife

How can anyone hate Chinese people? We have twenty ways to say "I love you" before we get to the "coarse phrases" that Chinese Ladies should not use.

This is good, we all celebrate our "Chinese-ness."

Jing ai Chou

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 474 Location: Surrey, UK

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 319

Hmmm, really not that helpful

bhyt · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 173

ah my favourite lyrics are tong hua- 'ye xu ni bu hui dong, cong ni shuo ai wo yi hou, wo de tian kong xing xing dou liang le'.

there was one girl in my mandarin class who enjoyed learning to write chinese characters because she thought it looks artistic, and she enjoys art and drawing.

i think the english language can be hard for others because some words have silent sounds such as pseudonym, some people use metaphors which can be confusing to others such as 'it's raining cats and dogs'. there are some words that are hard to pronounce-my mum can't pronounce the word 'tuna'.

xiaolu guo's book 'a concise chinese english dictionary for lovers' was brilliant in its portrayal of the problems in language barriers. i loved it when she wrote that shakespeare is a lazy speller, and that her english is better than shakespeare's, and when she said the english are lazy for only having 26 letters in the alphabet, and how the chinese have 50 000 characters!

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 474 Location: Surrey, UK

bhyt · Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 173

haha yeh the tong hua video did admittedly make me cry when i first watched it lol, bit depressing music video i must say. i remember one time my sister said all chinese movies/books are depressing-someone always dies, gets killed, some sort of real injustice etc etc.

the female chinese authors autobiographies are usually depressing, so much injustice, patriarchy, oppression-though i think it is useful and important that these women tell their history.

hope u have a lovely trip in beijing.

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 474 Location: Surrey, UK

Yes is Chinese thing, most stories and movies have people die at the end. Classic story line is Boy meets girl, parents disapprove, boy goes off to war/be a monk/barefoot teacher. Girl gets Emphysema, boy comes back to find her on her deathbed, parents weeps and agree to their love match, she expire as single tear rolls down her cheek, boy commits suicide.

I'm in Beijing now, city is hot and humid and more dusty that I ever see it for many year. Still with Chinese people again and Mandarin clicking into place again. I managed to get Xinran's Sky Burial and Miss Chopsticks at airport. I Read Sky Burial on flight is good, makes you weep for the suffering of Chinese women but don't let that put you off. Xinran is wonderful author. She says that nobody likes to cry but crying waters our souls. For this I am grateful to her.

siu mai · Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 363 Location: In the sky

ex-VAG · Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 439

Have to completely agree with that, I think it's harder for 2nd generation to communicate to first generation parents, or is it just me?

siu mai · Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 363 Location: In the sky

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