Why Can't Dimsum take off?

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

Dimsum in my humble opinion, is one of the best laid out, well organized, pleasantly laid out forums I have come across. Congratulations to the IT designer.

But Dimsum cannot seem to take off! Why! There are many reasons for this but basically I believe it is the membership attitude or mentality. There are too many inhibitions and taboos.

Someone comes on to start discussions on several topics, different topics, and succeeds to post several hundred posts, and it seems to get things moving along nicely. But you can be sure that this person will be criticized not by experts to prove that his arguments can be seen from a different angle, but they will use 'ad Hominem' attacks against that person for no rhyme or reason. These 'mean- minded' members (in reality trolls) come to belittle not the arguments or the article but the person who is posting. Why? It is pure 'mean minded vindictiveness'. Why? Because these people want attention by disrupting and causing distress in others. It is known as 'internet bullying'. These people are frustrated, inadequate, incompetent people who hope to earn some attention and glory by so doing.

Ad Hominem is not helped when the management is afriad to step in to do something about it, but allows or even add to such destructive behaviour. This shows that the membership as well as the management are hampering the growth of this lovely site.

There have been several genuine and sincere members here who want this group to succeed but they get put off and go elsewhere. Now either we want this forum to succeed or we want to kill it. I have tried again and again, but each time another 'mean-minded person' will come along to make life miserable and stressful. Like I said, I have many other sites to fulfill my active mind and writing abilities, but I would really like to see a decent 'Eastern Forum' functioning as an intelligent and sophisticated discussion group to express Asian views and thoughts to share among ourselves or with the other visitors. That is the only reason that I keep trying but after expressing these views those creeps will be out for my blood, for sure. And that is my intention, I want to see how bad it can get and what is the management team going to do about it to get this group under a mature and effective management!

Get your spammers banned(none have been removed as far as I can see). Get people who insult and attack others without just cause banned or strongly warned before banning. Get trolls banned. Get bullies banned. Get all abusers banned. Get indecent post banned. Permit freedom of speech, but not incitement of hatred.

Let us see what reaction this produces. I am ready for whatever comes! Because this is going to get people upset!

Post counts have been removed from this site, but you cannot deny that I have posted more than most people here, and they are substantial and intelligent posts. There is no nonsense in my posts, and I generally do not criticize the other person either.

signed elle aka mbplee@gmail.com

tenpence · Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 174

Hi elle
if you are always complaining about the forum, why don't you leave? no one's stopping you!

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

Intent of Trolls.

Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others. The key element under attack by a troll is the forum or group's recognized and agreed upon power structure.

A person who retaliates (using whatever means) as a result of a misunderstanding (or as a way of rebelling against the overzealous application of rules) is not a troll. A troll is a person who approaches a board with the specific intention of stirring things up, either with no particular motive or provocation in mind, other than to be purely destructive or if the motive or provocation is against the ethos of the board. [3] For example, a neo-Nazi approaching a Jewish forum with the intention of attacking the members, purely because the neo-Nazi knows the forum to contain Jewish members, will be considered a troll.

The general element, that determines whether a malicious user is a troll or not, is the level of indignant emotions present in the person, coupled with the person's history with the forum or group. An indignant user who has had a previous normal relationship with the group is not a troll, even if the user uses methods of attack that are characteristic of a troll attack.

The term Troll is often used as an insult in online communications, resulting in it being largely misapplied.
---------------oooooo-----------
Trolls vs Internet bullies

actually find that there are two classes of people who cause maximum trouble on forums. One is of course, the traditional "troll" who wreaks havoc by anti-social behaviour and by deliberately riling up forum members to get kicks out of it, causing havoc and bad blood in the process.

I think as admins, we need to realize that there is another group which I would term as "online bullies" or "internet bullies" who can become equally destructive in undermining communities.

These gentlemen/ladies differ from trolls in the sense that they are not anti-social, but they are an accepted and sometimes well-respected members who assume a sort of informal and unofficial leadership role. They use this position to intimidate and assert their views on newer and less established members and often push their weight around to mark territorial rights. They will generally try and behave properly, but subtly try and behave like moderators and preach about forum behaviour. They will also turn and insult people as they wish and surprisingly other forum members will turn a blind eye to them. They will usually "adopt" ownership of a single forum or a subforum of a board and hang out there frequently with their clan. (this feature is usually more common in larger forums)

These people are often the starting point of cliques because they can gather a group of yes-people around them in no time.

Beware of these people and watch out for them because they can be a lot more trouble in the long run than isolated trolls running loose.

Sometimes you just need an excellent troll to combat an established forum bully

Similarities between trolls and bullies:

Both trolls and bullies can cause enormous damage to a forum by their behaviour.
Both trolls and bullies usually have excellent communication skills using which they attack their opponents unmercifully.
Both trolls and bullies can be intimidating to any normal forum user.
Both trolls and bullies have the effect of creating bad blood.
Both trolls and bullies are hard to control without intervention right from the top - the forum administrator(s) or owner(s) because even moderators might find it hard to control them without support from others.
Differences

Trolls are usually isolated. They are generally short-lived in a forum. A person who signs up on a forum specifically to troll doesn't hang around in other parts of the forum and leaves as soon as the damage is done.
Bullies are more or less regular forum members who might have a huge post count and a following.
Trolls usually hit and run. A successful troll needs only a couple of posts in a single thread to turn it into a raging tornado.
Bullies stay on and intimidate other members by throwing their weight around and using their group of yes-people to lend force to their powerful attacks.
Trolls are usually identified for what they are.
Bullies rarely get identified for what they are, because they are regular members and nobody can suggest that they are ordinary trolls because they have a huge post count.
Trolls hardly respond to challenges. Instead they enjoy watching others fight.
Bullies enjoy fighting and run around bashing everybody who dares oppose them.
The potential damage done by trolls is limited to a particular topic of discussion or at most a forum.
The potential damage done by bullies is forum-wide and not related to topics, but to the personality of the bully and the kind of respect and influence he wields.
__________________

Literary Forums

Last edited by harishankar : 08-16-2006 at 10:40 AM.

http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26193

[The above descriptions are the main causes why forums decline. If you do not do something about it, your forum is DEAD.]

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

Tenpence, why don't you leave? I have not done anything wrong and I am trying to improve this forum. You are one of those bullies I am talking about? You have now shown your MEAN personality for all to see, thanks!

ex-VAG · Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 445

Hahahaha anyone see the irony in this thread?? :lol: :lol:

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 361

Thought I will pop in to allow myself to be shot (by internet) in this thread.

As I had probably triggered off Elle's input about the philosophies of Buddha, Lao Tzu and Confucius, I will put in my 'two pennies' worth.

Although I have an interest in these philosophies, the volume can be overwhelming. There must be a better way to organise these information. I am sure the 'Dimsum site' can create a better organisational system for easy retrieval of subjects like the ones Elle has posted. These information would benefit all visitors to the site who are non Chinese, who would have interests in all things Chinese. This information Elle has posted is important to a site that proported to be British Chinese.

Dimsum would benefit from being more pro-active in its management of the subjects which would be of interest to British Chinese. For example, if there is going to be a site for 'Recipes', then it should be capable of being retrieved in an alphabetical order or in the main ingredients order. There is no point in posting recipes which would be lost in the 'haystack' of the forum. In the similar manner, I feel Elle's input could be organised in such a way, that other members not in interest in the subject, do not feel overwhelmed.

I have visited some other 'BBC' sites, which I feel is a forum for 'exhibitionists'. The way Dimsum site is being used is regular, intelligent and open. Some 'BBC' sites makes me feel 'disgusted and ashame' as a Chinese person. However, I am of the opinion that much as I do enjoy this site, I feel there is apathy within the site.

Pro-active management of this site would be beneficial to all visitors and contributors of this site.

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

pensggs, I appreciate your post. To admit that you may have triggered my spat of posts about Taoism/Confuciuism/Buddhism is very honourable. Yes, perhaps I was waiting for the right opportunity to speak about Chinese culture. (I has heavily criticized for speaking about Islam before and was called all kinds of names for that, so surely speaking of Chinese culture would be nore appropriate. And you opened the door for me.)

Although we did not begin well, we sized one another up and we began discussions in an intelligent way, and for that it was much appreciated. I felt from the beginning that perhaps we could exchange different views of our concepts of the Chinese heritage. (I was brought up a Christian and my grandfather was a listed man under the Emperor with a price on his head for his beliefs. He was an early Chinese Christian.) So I know about the Boxer rebellion and that period of history.

Anyway, I reiterate, I appreciate yourlevel headed views.

By the way, for those who want to observe how many Chinese posters write visit:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/soc.culture.china/topics?lnk=li

I used to post there as well but I gave up although I am still a member.

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 361

Elle, out of curiousity, decided to visit the site. A classic example of 'how not to run a forum'. Some input depicts 'the lowest of the low life'. The use of foul language maybe 'macho' to some; however, it definitely illustrated a lack of communication ability.

I hope Dimsum will not allow the standards to be lowered. I reiterate, apathy kills, pro-active management of the site will pump life into a decent, humanistic, intelligent, and open forum.

Personal attacks should not be allowed to exists in any forum; wherever it originates, regardless of the reasons. A true debate cannot exists without good chairmanship.

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

sandmanching · Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 1:51 am Post subject:

hey you all...now l am not a troll nor a bully...maybe just your humble court jester...l am not funny? l didn't say l was a good one...

alright, l will get to the point...you see elle, the troll/bully thing you posted above was another copy pasta...thats why ex vag and others including myself say the things in the spamming thread...also if you actually read and understood what you posted you would have noticed you too fit the description of a bully and l quote from your post:

These gentlemen/ladies differ from trolls in the sense that they are not anti-social, but they are an accepted and sometimes well-respected members who assume a sort of informal and unofficial leadership role. They use this position to intimidate and assert their views on newer and less established members and often push their weight around to mark territorial rights. They will generally try and behave properly, but subtly try and behave like moderators and preach about forum behaviour.

well, you probably don't think you are preaching about forum behaviour but if you rant against the moderators of this forum about how the forum should run then you appeared to be so.

now l am not saying you are a bully nor like l said before; are you spamming. sometimes though when you post stuff like taoism; which incidently had been posted before anyway by chineseperson, it is just a long list of historical facts that has been copy/paste and they aren't that special as they are just concise facts which you can find anywhere by just goggling or an entry in a encylopedia, it really doesn't go into any depth or the nature of the philosphy. l have books and books of buddhist texts in chinese myself if l want to seriously study buddhism. as you are a christian, how will you feel if someone just copy excepts from the bible without saying anything about them... why am l reading this when l have the bible?...

another thing is why are you so obsessed with the number of posts people written? l am sure l m not the only onewho considers quality is better than quantity...

finally, there was a period when neither of us post anything but l visited now and again and found there were new threads posted and new members joined, so in truth, the forum will continue whether we are here or not... like this planet really...we are not that significant you know...mm not much laughs is there?...l did say l am not a good one...not a bad impersonator though...

oh yeah...why can't dimsum take off?...because it has no wings?....not a bird but a char siu bun?...

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

I agree with your opening statement,

"hey you all...now l am not a troll nor a bully...maybe just your humble court jester...l am not funny? l didn't say l was a good one... "

But you could be a dunce, a clown, or a dud? or a manching? But you are still attempting to put someone down? You are still attempting to belittle the poster of C&P? Are you not?

Have you ever read a decent book in your life? Many good books have a list of bibliographies at the back. Many good books have numbered subscripts to words or sentences, and paragraphs, and even to quotation marks, do you know what these refer to? Have you ever read any nbooks on religion or culture, that does not make reference to other authors or works? Can you honestly analyze any culture, or even history without quotes to previous articles or views. If you can then you are a genious, more intelligent that any historian on earth. If you cannot, and you attack someone for such references, then you are either very ignorant or a fool. And I think you know where I place you. You are another young fart who thinks you are very clever, and want to put elle down, but continue with this argument, and I will point out your errors. Putting someone down, no matter how cleverly you try to word it is denigrading that writer, i.e. you are practicing 'bullying'.

Why don't you instead write an article how it is criminal to C&P. And why it should not and cannot be used in forums without mentioning any names, but please quote supporting sources for your arguments. Visit other sites, young man, and see what other people and forums are doing, before you spout off your prejudices and your bigotry, and your meanmindedness and your narrow uneducated views, and your bullying tatics and your lynch mob characteristics.

Now let's see a reply from you Mr.Sand or is it Mud?

Editor · Site Admin Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 215

elle, there is absolutely no reason to write a post like this. Why are you being nasty to posters such as sandmanching who are not being agressive but trying to engage with you? Please stop doing this or you will e banned.

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

Please quote rule that has been broken? Did sandman attempt to correct me or not for posting C&P? I am, just egging him on! As he was me?

luke · Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Why Can't Dimsum take off?

elle · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 334 Location: Nottingham, UK

luke, your reply appreciated albeit a bit late. It was a good sensible reply. You will be better off with my deletions. Good luck!

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