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Carrie Gaye
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: Poetry, written in Cantonese, for young people. |
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Can anyone recommend some poetry in Cantonese for students aged eleven years and over?
Also, might you know of a Cantonese translation of any Shakespeare plays?
Thank you.
Carrie Gaye |
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chunxueping
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 462
Location: Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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This is a standing joke in China “Shakespeare can only be appreciated in its original Chinese!” Shakespeare doesn't work very well in translation but the spirit of Shakespeare does appear in many Chinese stories and movies, especially Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet. He had a strong influence on Chinese tragic stories. (or is it the other way around. Was Shakespeare really Chinese)? I have seen "The Tempest" and "Romeo and Juliet" translated into Mandarin but not Cantonese. People have had various attempts in translating Shakespeare into Chinese for about 200 year.
Try:
“Glossing Shakespeare in Chinese Translation: Liang Shiqiu, Zhu Shenghao, and 暴風雨 (The Tempest),” in Shakespeare Yearbook 2006, vol. XVII: Shakespeare in China, ed. Yang Lingui and Douglas Brooks. New York: Edwin Mellen Press, 2006,
"Shakespeare in China: A Comparative Study of Two Traditions and Cultures" by Xiao Yang Zhang Published: University of Delaware Press ISBN-10: 0874135362 may be a good reference but this is in English.
These links might help you with research.
http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_artqa/2003-09/24/content_38734.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_poetry
For Chinese poetry why not start with:
Women of the Red Plain: An Anthology of Contemporary Chinese Women's Poetry by Lin Julia C: Penguin 1992. ISBN: 0140586474
The McGill-Harvard-Yenching Library Ming-Qing Women’s Writings Digitization Project at:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/mingqing/english/project.htm
is a good resource where you can view much women’s poetry of the Ming-Qing periods in their original form.
I am afraid I am biased towards Chinese women’s poetry. |
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Carrie Gaye
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Chunxueping,
Thanks very much for the enlightening information. (I like 'Shakespeare can only be be appreciated in its original Chinese'!)
Anyway, I will certainly look into the works you have suggested. My partner is especially keen to do so; he already has some Chinese poetry. (Translated into English, and of course, everything loses a degree of its original essence in translation.)
The thing is, I really want some poetry that's suitable for young people of about eleven years and over. I hoped to find some which offers metaphor.
(All in Cantonese - but it would be wonderful if there could also be some translations into English.)
Is it a cheek if I leave my email address, in case you are able to give me some details? (It's - carriegaye121@aol.com )
Many thanks again.
Carrie |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Carrie,
I could think of 2 cantonese songs of great interest to you and young people:-
[1] 帝女花主題曲
Back in the 60s, whenever this song was played on radio in Hong Kong, every household would immediately turn up their volume to full blast !
My colleague told me 12 years ago that the 1st performance of this song was so good that no other performer had ever matched it, and the original recording had never been released on record, so this is truly a priceless treasure. When I enquired about this at a local chinese takeaway, one knowledgeable lady talked to me as if I was illiterate for not knowing the words by heart. The fluency of Hong Kong chinese youngsters nowadays is shockingly stunning.
I was also told that it is a universally popular Karaoke song for overseas chinese.
(It will take me a while to write the words of this Cantonese Opera song onto the computer. So nudge me if you need it more quickly.)
[2] Cha Cha Cha (Sung in Cantonese)
This is a very down to earth humorous song very popular in Hong Kong when I was 15 back in 1969.
I only remember 2 lines :
Cha Cha Cha, 去水坑排長龍,
Cha Cha Cha, 去水坑叫肚痛, . . .
Edwina xx |
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Carrie Gaye
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Thank you very much Edwina.
I look forward to receiving the lyrics.
Of course, this is mainly for our Chinese students, but
at some point it might be nice to get the lyrics in English too, or if not, at least to have a little idea of what the song is about. And maybe later on we could have the lyrics in Cantonese, but written phonetically in English if you know what I mean, so that other students could try singing it in Cantonese, which I think they'd love to do.
At the moment I have some Cantonese words and phrases up in my room, written phonetically in English (as best I could after much practise with our patient Chinese students!) The kids who are not Chinese really like trying out the words. I think this is because Cantonese (and I expect Mandarin also?) has got a nice feel-iness in the mouth!
Carrie |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Carrie,
Here are the on screen lyrics that came from the Cantonese Karaoke VCD 粵語經典 volume 2
帝女花: 香天 (主題曲)
女: 落花滿天蔽月光,
借一杯附薦鳳台上,
帝女花帶 淚上香,
願喪生回謝爹娘,
偷偷看, 偷偷望,
佢帶 淚 帶淚暗悲傷，
我半帶驚惶
怕駙馬惜鸞鳳配
不甘殉愛伴我臨泉壤
男：寸心盼望能同合葬
鴛鴦侶相偎傍
泉台上再設新房
地府陰司裏
再覓那平陽門巷
女：唉 惜花者甘殉葬
花燭夜難為駙馬飲纰霜
男：江山悲災劫
感先帝 恩千丈
與要與妻雙雙叩問帝安
女：唉盼得花燭共偕白髮
誰個願看花燭翻血浪
唉 我誤君累你同埋孽網
好應盡禮揖花燭深深拜
再合卺交杯墓穴作新房
待千秋歌讚註
駙差馬在靈牌上
男：將枊蔭當做芙蓉帳
明朝駙馬看新娘
夜半挑燈有沁作窺粧
女：地老天荒
情鳳永配痴凰
願與夫婿共拜相交杯舉案
男：遞過金杯慢嚥輕嚐
將砒霜帶淚放落葡萄上
女：合歡與君醉夢鄉
男: 碰杯共到夜台上
女：百花冠替代殮妝
男：駙馬珈墳墓收藏
女：相擁抱
男：相偎傍
合：雙枝有樹透露帝女香
男：帝女花
女：長伴有心郎
合：夫妻死去樹也同模樣 |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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The lyrics are sung by a man 男 & a woman 女, or both 合together.
I'll translate into english later.
Edwina xx |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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The words are on screen in [1] [2] & [4], so there is no need for phonetics. Phew!
Job done.
Edwina xx  |
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Edwina Lee
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Location: High Wycombe, UK
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joybetluck
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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女: 落花滿天蔽月光,
The first verse of the lyric sounds like.
female: The satiated flower bathe in the the moon light every night. |
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Carrie Gaye
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Edwina,
I can't thank you enough for the trouble you took in providing the written Chinese lyrics and all the links to the videos. My partner and I loved watching and hearing the serious version - what a divine voice that young woman has!
We saw some of the comic one, plus a little of the (possibly) Hilary one.
The videos kept halting though, so we are going to try to download them to avoid that.
I'll make further excursions into the other versions as soon as
I can, to find the one with an English translation.
Our Chinese students can help at some point with a roughly transliterated version of at least a part of the song, so that the English students can try singing it.
I wanted to be able to say some words/phrases in Cantonese to one of our Chinese students, for example, 'Don't worry'.
Of course, I've written these down to learn them.
'Don't worry' became 'M-msai-downsum'.
I'm sure this does not provide me with the perfect pronounciation and that someone else might write something like 'Mm-siydownsumm'. But it suffices because when I say it I am understood. Since we find it quite acceptable when those who are not native speakers of English say things imperfectly, I hope my inadequacies are forgivable.(Although I am aware that sometimes just a change of intonation can change meaning quite dramatically!)
Carrie |
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Carrie Gaye
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Joybetluck.
That does sound like the kind of romantic lyric found universally in opera. (Although it seems to have a more intelligent choice of words than many?)
Carrie
Last edited by Carrie Gaye on Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Carrie Gaye
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Chunxueping.
My partner wonders if you could recommend a good English translation of Li-Po's poetry. He explained to me that there are two types of translations of which he's aware; one conveys the meaning most faithfully and the other endeavours to convey the poetic qualities. He would like at this stage to look at one which conveys the meaning. Thank you!
Carrie |
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chunxueping
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 462
Location: Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ni Hao Carrie,
This is a good site which offers Chinese and English versions of the great Chinese poets.
http://www.chinapage.com/poetry9.html
The nice thing about this site is you can hear some of the poetry being read.
All honoured Li-Po poetry is here with much English translation. You need to seek his name both as Li-Po and Lǐ Bái / Lǐ Bó. What I like best about his poetry is that it is free from anger and very optimistic. I love the way he died too. Supposedly falling in the river while trying to embrace the refection of the moon (while drunk). A true "Rock-Star" death.
The problem with translation is that it is not just spiritual meaning or language accuracy that is present but also time and dialect.
Shakespeare often does not rhyme, not because he was bad writer but because he wrote in Tudor English and we are reading it 400 year too late. With Li-Po we are over 1300 year removed in time and culture. So what is correct rhyme? We can only listen to various interpretations and make up our own minds.
This is common problem in music. Someone told me once that Beethoven can only be appreciated if played on old piano with legs sawn off laid on the floor with your ears stuffed with cheese. Only then can you hear what he heard and what he intended.
Zhu Hao,
CX-P |
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