Is that all we do?

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

I've come across quite a few chinese people lately; the vast majority who have recently arrived and quickly settled. To those who have setup a business, literally 100% of them is in the hospitality trade - restaurants, takeaways and only in one case - a small hostel. You could say they were limited by what they could do because of the skillset/language - but that's no excuse for the rest of us.

I've seen some talented/highly educated/skilled chinese who were born and bred here, but 99% of them prefer to follow a job - and the other 1%, which I must admit I have only seen through website links - follow the restaurant trade too! If I recall correctly, there was a sister trio including a lawyer and an engineer - and they go into restaurants. I mean, WHYYY? Is it the safe option, despite not knowing anything about the catering? Is it the one that non chinese see us as "experts" in, seeing as we look chinese? And of the BBCs, would you say the education system we follow has made us too shy to risk doing a business that doesn't involve pancake rolls? Or even to go into business at all, instead subtly forcing us into "getting a career"?

burntbread · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 37 Location: London

Are you Chinese?

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

yup

But that's important - why, exactly?

burntbread · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 37 Location: London

I think it's an obvious question to ask seeing as you have a Western name.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

But again, it's important because...?

A simple read through any of my posts will tell you easily. I don't write from a pseudo first person perspective to pose as a bbc. And just google the name, jeez.

Either way, back to the topic.

burntbread · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 37 Location: London

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

Right, the rest not going into business at all. What I'm saying is that why are chinese, bbcs or otherwise, so geared towards opening up in the hospitality industry if they were starting up a business, differing skillset or otherwise?

And seriously... why is being chinese or not so important to your replying to the topic in the first place?

burntbread · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 37 Location: London

Look it's not 'important'. If your name is 'Jeff Minter' and you refer to Chinese people and use the term 'we' it is actually somewhat confusing as Chinese people do not, by and large, have names like 'Jeff Minter'.

That's why I asked. I'm surprised that you would find that surprising.

As to your topic, catering may be seen as an easy option as it is tried and trusted, as opposed to higher risk, ground breaking business idea.

Having said that you would have to look at real statistics to get a true picture. For example do fewer BBCs start their own businesses compared to white British people? Perhaps there are govt stats somewhere.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

Really? And here's me thinking that burntbread, sandman and ex-VAG were names that I'd associate everyday with chinese people. Grow up mate, it's the internet, we call each other what we like. The very fact that you are so bothered about it means you must have some reservations towards "outsiders" - where their opinions are segregated towards "ours" and "theirs" - not exactly a welcoming attitude to take, eh?

It was in a programme recently, around 15% of people here have started up a business before they are 30; stats on british chinese startups would clear things up, but probably not recordable. One thing's certain though, the percentage in the restaurant industry far surpasses that for other ethnicities.

burntbread · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 37 Location: London

ex-VAG · Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 445

Come on chaps, be nice to each other. It's hard to ask and answer those type of questions when posting as you can't see the expressions, if it was asked face to face then this would have been over with in seconds and no malice or ill feeling felt.

Back to the topic, it's probably where the money is. The reason we all go back into 'the trade' is that we want to be our own boss, we know about the food and it's relatively easy money/good returns.
When you said Jeff about not knowing anything about the trade, those who don't probably hire a chef in from back home, give him a room and pay minimum wage. With the front end, I'm pretty sure we're all adapt at taking orders or putting the dishes out, it's not silver service I guess. Though I think I'd probably struggle at clearing the table in one go and balancing various dishes/plates on my arm!! :lol:

assis104s · Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 145

I think that the BBC's might return to catering because of family pressure and a desire to continue the family business.

If you look at the stats overall though there are far fewer BBC's going into catering now. This has caused a shortage in potential staff. More and more mainland chinese have been employed in this industry, but unfortuntely they suffer low wages and long hours...

burntbread · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 37 Location: London

I think you have 2nd generation kids 'taking on the family trade' which is nothing unusual really.

And you also have newcomers to the industry who see an opportunity to modernise the old concept of the takeaway and perhaps try new ideas (the Alan Yau's of this world)

In a sense, by going into Chinese catering, you are turning your own ethnicity into a business asset, so it does indeed make sense. The question is whether you enjoy working in that field, I suppose.

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

Here goes, a misconception and assumption that catering trade is easy.

Firstly, real and true chefs are not cheap, whether it is for Chinese cuisine or other cuisine. Next, it is not easy money. The catering trade is the hardest and most difficult trade, but because barriers to entrance is almost non-existent, whether it is ethnic catering or not, it is perceive as 'easy money'. Failures in the catering trade is very high especially for first timers.

Most new Chinese immigrants enter the trade because they often lacked the langauage skills to carry on the trade or skill they possess. The other reason is there is a major shortage of labour in the ethnic catering market, so getting employment is easy. These new Chinese immigrants then go on to start their own business, usually a takeaway, because they know that to succeed in this country, they need to be their own boss. Working hard and being enterprising is a well perceived 'work ethics' of the Chinese culture.

The next generation (first generation BBC) often are well educated, and significant numbers of BBCs go into the professional arena or academia. However, quite a significant numbers because of pressure of helping the family business or lack of family support
have no choice but to enter the trade. However, there is then a significant number of professional and well educated BBCs, eventually return to the catering trade when they decided to do their own thing. Naturally they return to catering because it is easy to get on that bandwagon and it is a 'safe' option because that is where their have 'knowledge'.
Then there are a good number of BBCs, with a true love of 'Chinese or Oriental' cuisine, who chose the catering trade, for example, Alan Yau ( Wagamama, Hakkasan, Yatatcha, etc)

Finally, the most important factor is that 'there is demand!' so the most basic economic law of supply and demand applies here too.

Martin · Joined: 21 Feb 2005 Posts: 69

I work in IT.

I have no interest in opening up my own takeaway.

I have no interest in working in a restaurant.

I have no interest in working with sweet and sour sauce full stop.

I just want my computer.

I just want to get paid for using a computer.

I just want to be able to use MSN at work.

With all this and a decent wage.

MARTIN = HAPPY.
_________________
Regards

Martin

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