A Chinese - Hispanic - American girl dilemma. Please help.

mixedgirl2007 · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 7

Hi everyone.

I was referred to this website by a good friend to get some help. If you guys read my story and have something to say, please do not hesitate to do so. I would like to hear it.

I was born in a South-American country where the main language spoken is Spanish. My parents are both 100% Chinese. I was born and live in my Spanish-speaking country for over 10 years. Been exposed with these two cultures shaped my personality and my identity. My ideologies and beliefs are more Spanish than Chinese.

My parents speak very little Spanish and are fluent Chinese. On the other case, I speak fluent Spanish because it is my native language and very little Chinese. Being at school most of the days where only Spanish was spoken only had helped me to be fluent in one language and not the other.

Then, we came to the United States several years ago. Although there are many Chinese people in USA, my Chinese language skill didn't improve at all. Having Chinese friends prove to be a difficult task since to them, it seems I don't look the way they are. It seems that I don't look white enought or I don't know what it is. I am still confused about it. In my heart, I find it hard to identify myself as one of them since there are things that I don't agree or understand about the Chinese culture.

I became fluent in English and Spanish, but I still have trouble with the Chinese language. I have trouble communicating with my parents because my parents don't know any other language than Chinese and they are not fluent at all in another language.

I have always been a person who study a lot with no social life and no bf until the last year of college, I met the most wonderful person who became my first boyfriend and now, he is my fiance. He proposed to me after one and a half year of relationship together as a bf and gf. We haven't live together and because I still live with my parents, I respect my parents' rule.

I respect my parent's curfew. He and I only spend time together during the weekend as we both have to work during the weekdays. Overall, he proved to love me very much and to be very patient.

I never told my dad that I had a bf and I asked my mom not to tell my dad about my relationship for fear on how he would react. He is a bit racist especially against a latino (my fiance's race). When I announced the news, she went against me and she said that I was too young ( I am currently 23 years-old and my fiance is 27 years-old)and that I didn't have a professional career to be married yet. She believes that I am not ready because I can't survive by myself.

I graduated with a college degree, and I plan to go to a gradschool in about a year from now. I told her about it and she believed that I can wait and wait. However, I feel very strongly about me and my fiance. Everytime we are together we can't help, but to feel that we are meant to be together and that we should be married. We are both eager to marry each other and to start a new journey.

She also believes in a prophecy that she got from a guy in China and that is if I married early, I would be divorce later. She believes it with firm conviction because she consulted this same guy who said that I was involved in an accident which I did. She only provided my birthdate and my name. To be honest, I don't believe in this kind of thing.

My mother didn't allow me to wear my engagement ring which proves to be very heartbreaking. She asked me to return it to my fiance , which I never did. I just kept it in a box next to my bed. I decided to stay with her hoping to convince her and possibly my dad with time.

Since then, I have decided to do a few things. My fiance and I decided to wait for a year (where I would try by all means to convince them to accept us) and I would be going to work and applying for gradschool after gaining experience in one area that I am interested in. Also, during this period, I would like to confront my dad with the big news since he works outside of the states of where we live and comes home a few times during the year.

During these times, my mom has been giving my brother hints about when a wedding should take place ( I am guessing she is saying it because of my grandma's death) and how much of a dowry should a groom gives to the family of the bride. My fiance disagrees strongly with giving money to my parents as a dowry (cash) because he believes it is against his principle. I understand perfectly his view and also understand the chinese tradition view. I don't know what to do in this aspect.

I lost communication with my mom although we live in the same apartment. We barely talk anymore. The communication isn't there anymore and I am barely keeping my sanity. I feel caught in the middle and this is the hardest thing I've have to face with. My mom can be very difficult and demanding and I feel that my fiance is not helping me. Sometimes, I think about that a dowry shouldn't be hard to give since we only married once in our lives(at least we hope).

The most important thing that I want is my fiance and my mom to come on a compromise. I don't know what to do because I see my situation and is so frustrating. I cried all night at the thought of losing my mom or my fiance. It's heartbreaking and sometimes, I believe I am going crazy with all of this. There are some days that I can't speak anymore and I am just numb. There have been a few moments where I would be walking without realizing that I was crossing to the other side of the street with a car passing by and honking.

Sometimes, I start to get angry and start hating them both because they are making my life impossible. I have been frustrated and emotional for months.

If anyone can help me or give me suggestions, please do so. I am willing to listen.

joybetluck · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 206

First of all welcome to the site. It am very happy, we have a member who can speak Spanish!

Your story is interesting. If you have the chance I suggest watch the movie Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (1967) with Sidney Poitier to get some ideas. I am not much of an agony aunt but here’s my reaction to what you have said for the little that it is worth.

I became fluent in English and Spanish, but I still have trouble with the Chinese language.
Even native chinese have problem with the language! You have done well to be fluent in two modern languages.

He is a bit racist especially against a latino (my fiance's race).
You would find many parents turn around after you are married. They would try to discourage you before you commit yourself.

she said that I was too young ( I am currently 23 years-old and my fiance is 27 years-old)
You are not too old to make a mistake but your fiance has to be careful where he is going.

She also believes in a prophecy that she got from a guy in China and that is if I married early, I would be divorce later. She believes it with firm conviction because she consulted this same guy who said that I was involved in an accident which I did. She only provided my birthdate and my name. To be honest, I don't believe in this kind of thing.
Heard that one before. Usual old wife tale to get you to do what they want.

Dowry?
May still exist in old China but many chinese do what they want nowadays. Its not easy though as all negotiations can leave a very bad taste. Try to get a third party to do the dirty work!

I lost communication with my mom although we live in the same apartment. We barely talk anymore.
Your mum might be suffering from menopause.

Sometimes, I start to get angry and start hating them both because they are making my life impossible. I have been frustrated and emotional for months.
You are going through the angst of being a young person.

You might find some insight from the experience of this Mexican in America
The web site also has news by ethnicity, so latino news might be of interest to you.
Mexicans in China - The New 'Model Minority'?
http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=053e308fa0 2e8f6949769e389546c760

Always look on the bright side of life! (Life of Brian -1979) Very Happy

mixedgirl2007 · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 7

Hi Joybetluck,

Thanks for the welcome. I will look into the movie that you just recommended.

Indeed, I have done well in becoming fluent in both languages. However, I wish I can be fluent in Chinese as well. It is a very frustrating situation if you don't know the language and you want to express something, but does not know how to especially to your parents.

I do hope my parents would come around after I get married especially my mom. It would be great if they can come around before the wedding takes place.

I would like to say something about the statement of whether I am not too old to make a mistake and that my fiance should be careful where he is going with me. I believe that noone is old or young to make a mistake. The word "mistake" can be have numerous meaning and it is subjective to the person's own experience. If I marry my fiance and let's supposed that the relationship fail, then I wouldn't consider it as a mistake. Why? Well, the answer is simple. It is because I would have done all my best before the relationship ended. I perceived as an experience where I would have learned a lesson. Personally, a mistake is when someone doesn't try all his or her best everyday to make the relationship work. To give up before starting is a mistake.

Regarding on the matter of dowry, I don't consider it as "dirty work". It justs that I and my fiance find it as a foreign word. We don't know why it is important and when we are not fully informed about something completely, you can't make a decision at all. We are talking about two different cultures and finding ways to deal with this. My fiance has trouble understanding the concept even more than I do. I would be very happy if my fiance and parents can work something out.

During my whole life, I learned to be non-judgmental and not to label at all. Therefore, I don't think is necessary to labeled dowry as "dirty work".

I was able to read the article, and I gotta say it was very interesting to read it. However, I don't know how does it relate to my situation.

Thanks for posting Smile

.

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 763 Location: Beijing, PRC

Dear mixedgirl2007,

You story is very interesting but while is always nice to see movie life not always work out happy ending. Life is compromise and have to come from all sides for true happiness.

Your honoured fiancé seems to be kindly, decent man fill with love for you. For him to be so patient in relationship and at your age when so many people live together and even have baby when not even marry is excellent sign of respect and love. You are certainly old enough to be married and I think with such good man you will succeed in long and happy marriage.

The matter of a dowry is trifling issue. It is old fashioned these days in the west. Even in China it fall from fashion. It is reasonable for a man to give a “gift” to the parents of woman for the joy of her hand in marriage. In old China it was meant to recompense the parents for the expense of bring up good and obedient daughter to be his wife. In modern west this idea is treated with ridicule. I not believe in a cash dowry but I think it is right for a man to offer gift as a token of his respect for her parents. This does not need to be any great expense it can be a symbolic gesture. It shows respect for their status and family tradition. If that is only what it take, would be silly to spoil your happiness for such a trifle.

People will laugh but my dowry in China was 100 cigarettes, a radio and a wok. I was 27. I think my parents were glad to get rid of me and let me go cheap. I wanted them to hold out for colour TV and I later learn that my husband had been prepared to add a second-hand motor scooter to the dowry but was please with good deal. Actually this hurt me greatly and for various reasons my marriage lasted just more than one year. The dowry was not the cause but his attitude and later behave was.

I do not think this will be an issue to your happiness. You seem to have good kind fiancé and I am sure that you can resolve your problems with kindness and patience. If your fiancé sees the principle of a dowry as unacceptable then use different terms for it. A personal tribute to your parents, A gift to show respect, whatever. Cash is the wrong thing these days, I think a nice household gift is better (never give clock though). Even better is gift of labour. Maybe some household decorating would be well received? Your main difficulty is going to be with your parents and their Chinese language which you say are not so familiar with. You do not say what language your parents speak, Mandarin, Hakka or Canton? Try to learn some simple Chinese phrases to show your love and respect, these phrases are normally simple. Your fiancé should learn too. So that your parents will see his respect for you and them.

I know you will be told to just grab happiness and leave but I sense that you love your parents and do not want your life with them to end badly. To do so would be a bad basis to start your new life with husband. I would encourage you to make great effort to resolve your differences if you can. The support of parents is good foundation to marriage. To fail to resolve these differences would cause you great pain.

May I humbly suggest your first step be that you get your mother to accept that you wear your engagement ring. Once she accepts that then she accepts your fiancé and she start to be on your side. You will be half-way there.

Oh and not to believe prophesy. Nothing is written. Only believe in what you will write in your mind and your heart.

Good Luck.

mixedgirl2007 · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 7

Hi Chunxueping,

Indeed, life is about compromise. I used to be very intrasigent in general issues, but my fiance has encourage me to see all sides of the situation and to be open-minded and compromising. It was hard at first, but I have grasped in the end.

I am very lucky to have such great fiance. He is really patient and he always show his respect and love for me. He never pressured me to do anything that I didn't want and he is always there for me when I need him the most. Your words of encouragement almost brought tear to my eyes. If only my parents can see and say the same thing like you do.

Many people are living together nowadays, but for some reason, I always felt that it was appropiate for a couple to live together when they are married. Perhaps, I am bit old-fashioned when it comes to this matter, but I feel strongly about it.

My parents are very traditional especially my mother. I do hope that when it comes to the dowry issue, my fiance and my parents can work something out. Like you said, the idea of cash as a dowry in the western culture leaves a bitter taste on the mouth. A gift like you said would rather be much nicer. I just hope that they are not too demanding about it. My parents are contumacious whenever they want.

I am really sorry to hear about your marriage. In my opinion, it is these kind of tough experiences and many others that teach us to become a better someone and a strong person. It's very difficult, but in the end, one can succeed. I hope that you are doing well now.

My parents speak Cantonese. I do know how to say some phrases. It justs that I really wish I could have a lengthy and productive conversation with them to show them that me and my fiance are serious. There was a period of time where I did teach some Cantonese phrase to my fiance. His pronunciation was not perfect, but he did tried. One time, he said something, but my mother didn't respond or anything. There was numerous ocassions in which this happened, and in the end, my fiance gave up. I don't think the real issue is him not being able to pronounce it well, but rather, it is the issue that my mother never took us seriously at all and finds imperfect flaws to blame us.

I do love my parents especially my mother and I do not definitely want to end horribly with them. My fiance and I will try to solve this differences. However, if the efforts are only to be met by acussations and ignoring, I can only do one thing and that is to move forward even though it will cause me a great deal of pain.

I do believe that once she starts accepting me wearing the engagement ring, she will begin to accept my fiance. However, I feel like that before working toward convincing mother, I will need to confront my dad who comes home several times during the year. Perhaps when he comes, I can announce the news. In my heart, I have hope that I can have at least my dad to support me and help me to convince my mom. However, I don't think it is possible because my dad always listen to his mother whose opinions I do not care at all since she and my mom don't get along well.

I don't believe in prophecy as well. I agree with you 100% in believing your mind and heart.

Thank you very much for sharing your opinion.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

Your background is no different to plenty of us, me included. Fortunately my parents are more welcoming/open, primarily through years of just shunning the "I'm chinese, therefore must marry a chinese woman" mantra.

You should wait a bit longer before getting married, you still haven't reached that fabled two year mark where things "change" and romance turns to familiarity, which is the downfall of many a relationship. Note that your partner's age gap means he will have experienced life more than you, a fresh graduate, so you might bear resentment towards him as he talks about family and stuff while you're still raring to go and explore. Unless you want to settle, of course.

Edwina Lee · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject:

mixedgirl2007,

A stable marriage to raise family is usually the result of favourable conditions of union. In your case, it is clearly not favourable for the time being.

Look at it as team work. Wink

In this instance, the team members have very different ideas about how the team works, and you who wants to change the team therefore cast yourself the role of team leader.

If I'm in your shoes, I would return the ring to your boy friend explaining that the time is not ready to commit to marriage nor engagement, and if he truly believes you are the right partner for him, he would wait patiently.

Meanwhile, explain this to your parents. Gradually get your boy friend and both of your ideas aquainted with your parents.

Clearly, your parents' traditions are inappropriate to rule without question. You need to convince them by reasoning, by inspirational material that they need to modify their ideas in a modern country of the 21st century.

Simultaneously, your spanish boyfriend needs to demonstrate his qualities to you and to your parents.

Believe me, this exercise would reveal deep qualities about your boy friend and whether you can truly admire him or not. The female brain is scientifically known to be unable to distinguish true love from sexual attraction, particularly when you are so young and lacking experience.

Hopefully, everyone will benefit through this exercise to find out whether you will all team up in a marriage, and to learn about many aspects of yourselves.

Edwina xx

siu mai · Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 363 Location: In the sky

getting married is like selling your soul Rolling Eyes

Edwina Lee · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject:

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 763 Location: Beijing, PRC

God is easy-peasy, she is merciful.

Mother-in-Law is difficult bit.....

mixedgirl2007 · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 7

To Jeff Minter:

Hi Jeff. Indeed that you are very fortunate in having open-minded parents. Mine are insular and personally, I do hope that in the end that their minds expand a bit.

As far as waiting for marrying longer, I already think that I am waiting enough. I don't know what do you mean by the two year marked fable. Perhaps you can explain that to me in more detail if you like Smile

. However before you answer, I would like to say that by the time, my fiance and I married, we would already have been gf and bf for two years and a half. My partner is more experienced than I do, but I don't find it resentful at all. On the contrary, I am happy for him and those experiences had make him of what he is today. Sometimes inside of me already wants to settle with this man. I have been waiting for the one for years. I have been picky with bf since the age of 16 and the reason of why I have chosen this guy as my first bf and fiance is because my intuition told me that he has been the one that I have searching all alone.

joybetluck · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 206

mixedgirl2007 I think you have taken a defensive stance about your marriage proposal, when you should be offensive!
Forget about chinese culture and custom, but think of what it is expected of a latino lady and what your fiance expect from you as a latino wife. What are his parents expectations for the two of you and how does in-laws and relatives relate to each other. This might give you a big head-ache, but you need to work with your fiance on how you are going to support yourselves and how your life would pan out short, medium and log term. If you can sort out your life than it would be much easier for god, parents, in-laws, relative, and community to fall in.
Smile

siu mai · Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 363 Location: In the sky

siu mai · Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 363 Location: In the sky

BTW, I wanted to say that your parents are only looking out for your best interests and yeah, you haven't been in a relationship for long with this guy and they are right in saying it's quite early for you to get married. Fair enough you love each other and all that, but what's the rush in getting married?

mixedgirl2007 · Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 7

Hello Edwina Lee,

You mentioned a good point in that a stable marriage is USUALLY the result of favorable conditions. You wrote usually which means you know that it isn't always the case. Therefore you can agree with me, that a stable marriage and favorable condition is not 100% correlated together. There has been stable everlasting marriages where at the beginning, there have been factors that were not favorable at all for the couple. As far as my situation, I am aware that my family are not really supportive especially my mother and it isn't a favorable. Whether I will be able to achieve a long lasting and happy marriage, no one knows.

Your analogy of my situation with team work is very interesting Smile

. It does give some insight of my situation. The suggestion that you gave me as far as returning the engagement ring, isn't possible to do. I believe that if I do, it will against my wishes and my heart to do so. In addition, if they ask me to wait, what makes you think that in the future, that I won't be asked to do the same thing again? Would they wait for me to get a Chinese guy that I don't love at all and that I don't have any desire to have him in my life to finally say yes? For me to go against my heart is not an option.

Everytime when I tried to establish a conversation between my fiance and mother, she doesn't take him seriously at all. My fiance kept saying to me that he wants to be friend with my mom. I told him that it wasn't possible because in the Chinese tradition, the elders believe that the young generation "don't know anything." The elders will always see themselves as superior and that is something that I trembled to hear and to see.

As my fiance demonstrating his qualities to me and to my parents, he have tried. Everytime he buys something or does something that personally I think is very nice of him to do, but didn't have to, my mom only scorns not to him, but she does it behind his back. She scorns me also and she tells her closest friend and sister and brothers about it. Her high expectations are invalid and are unfair. My fiance isn't Chinese and for her to do that, it is very sickening. I told her why doesn't she say something to him or at least teach him and she doesn't answer.I don't know what her expectations are because each time is a new one. He is an extreme smart guy and he would have learned if someone took the time to teach him. She didn't and therefore her complaints are empty and invalid to me.

I don't know about how the female brain works. However, I am pretty sure one thing: you can have love and you can have sexual attraction in a relationship. These two characteristics are not mutually exclusive of each other. As far as my relationship goes, it has those two. I can be considered young or old by different populations. Personally though, I find myself mature which doesn't reflect it in my age. In terms of lacking experience, I don't know what you mean by it. There are plenty of people who have plenty of experiences and still act like kids on the outside with the difference that they have adults body. You see them everywhere and I am sure everyone knows someone who are like that.

Thank you very much for your commentary, Edwina. It was appreciated.

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