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kwai
Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:46 pm Post subject: Does anyone else find being labelled a BBC offensive? |
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I just don't get the obsession with being BBC or otherwise. In fact I find it offensive. It doesn't mean anything to the people you'd hope it counts for. Meaning anyone non oriental, who at first glance will see you as being different, and not being from 'here'. If they don't feel that way - then good - and being yellow, white, black, brown or any other colour under the sun won't make a difference to how they see you. But try convincing the likes of Bernard Manning you're his equal because you were born in Britain and see what answer you get.
If only I had a pound the amount of times I've been mistaken for a tourist and then get told my English is very good. It's hard enough trying to educate your friends in the differences between Chinese, Japanese, or Korean without creating these stupid points of differences. We've got far wider bridges to cross in terms of acceptance and culture. I think if you're Chinese, you're Chinese, British born or otherwise. |
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OceanLee
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:10 am Post subject: |
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You need better friends :)
Seriously though, I like the term BBC as it really does describe me, and possibly others I know. The problem is I don't count myself as Chinese, and due to my looks I'm not English either. I really don't care whether anyone else (white or otherwise) thinks I'm Chinese or not.
Given time no one person can be said to originate from any one place. The whole of England is a mongrel race of Swedes, Celts, Norwegians, Anglo-Saxons, French, etc. We as Chinese feel more isolated because our looks are that much more different to the rest of the people in this country, it doesn't mean the same rules don't apply. E.g. Would the descendants of Eric the Red, immigrated 800BC still be Swedish?
I like the title BBC because it describes this unique position that I'm in. A reference to my ethnicity and a holding pattern to my future integration into a multi-cultural society (or the hopes of one) |
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sp
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Does anyone else find being labelled a BBC offensive? |
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First of all, I don't give a **** what Bernard Manning thinks! I don't think we can live our lives thinking only of what other people think or us and our actions, least of all fat comedians with fading careers like Bernard Manning! :)
I agree that the term 'bbc' is not a great way of describing ourselves. It sounds a bit silly to reduce our identity to little 3-letter term. I feel a bit weird using that term in conversation.
| kwai wrote: | | I think if you're Chinese, you're Chinese, British born or otherwise. |
I'm not gonna argue with that. But what if you feel that through your upbringing and education, your personality has some British/European aspects? What if you have been around HK-born Chinese people and feel disconnected or different from them, like you have a different outlook on life, a different sense of humour etc?
Some people will opt for the 'Chinese thru and thru' identity, if it suits them (i.e. they probably speak great Cantonese/Madarin, aren't very interested in UK culture, socialise with other Chinese only, probably don't see themselves as part of UK society etc.) Good for them. This makes life a hell of a lot easier but maybe it doesn't work for everyone.
The whole essence of the 'bbc' situation is that there are some people who feel neither totally like other British people, nor totally like other Chinese people. |
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Eurasian
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think its sad all this BBC stuff. If i ask a chinese mate, what is, he will reply english, just as if i ask my indian friend, he will reply the same. Of course they and I don't like european, but thats the culture we grew up in, we have of course visted our own repective countries and have family there but we count ourselves as being english.
Of course to some cretins we will never be english but they don't matter to me. they are usually sad, unsuccesful people |
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GweiLo
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I don't see "BBC" as sad at all. It is merely a convenient label that encapsulates something unique or different about a particular class of people. Just like Eurasian in fact.
Often when I read these threads I think what gets lost is the bigger picture. If someone decsribes themselves as a BBC they aren't using it to describe the entirely of themselves. It isn't what they are, it is merely one aspect of what they are.
Eurasian is a name you use here, presumably because you think it says something relevant to the context of this board. You have already said that normally you describe yourself as English, which says something else about you....both are correct, both are about who/what you are (or feel you are), but neither (or even both together) don't descibe of define you do they?
Even as a non Chinese I see both similarities and differences between Chinese born here and those born elsewhere. My wife is Chinese Malaysian and the culture and environment she has grown up in (and therefore considers her own) is very different to our friends born in HK or the UK. She always describes herself as Chinese Malaysian because Chinese is too all encompassing and tells people nothing of her roots. I don't see BBC as being any more significant than that. |
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wonderstuff
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:14 am Post subject: Who are any of us? |
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I'm English and I had never heard of this phrase until a few years ago. Even people I knew that were BBC had never even mentioned it. It only became apparent when I started joining groups like this on the Internet.
The only unusual thing is that you don't tend (correct me if I'm wrong) to get people from other ethic groups calling them British Born. For example the Indian sub-continent community. Never heard of someone calling themselves BBI or BBP. Same with the Afro-Carib groups. This does seem to be unique to the Chinese, which from my brief research over the three years with my wife realised that the Chinese are a very diverse group, with many languages and cultures. It's almost like me calling myself European instead of English.
I think if we give ourselves labels we have to be comfortable with them. If others label themselves you need to respect their choice. Labels can be helpful aswell as a hinderance. They help us understand the essence of someone in a short statement, but equally can raise stereotyping too.
As someone said, no matter what you call yourself, stupid (racist) people will always be stupid and you can't help that. If they react to you badly because you look different that the majority of people in this country that's there problem not yours and no label or lack of label will change that.
In the end if you don't wish to be called BBC don't use it but others will continue and you cannot stop them from doing that just because you don't like it. In Taiwan people call me European, Westerner, American (I bite my lip), English. Well my passport says British :) |
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hairy fingers
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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It depends on the tone in which the term's said. If a person from HK says it in a certain way,it can be taken as "Oh you're all the same,you BBCs/You're YOU,NOT like us HK people/,you guys aren't REAL Chinese,you're BBC=different".
The thing is some of us really do need a term that we can feel comfortable with to adopt as our identity.
Do you have to be born in China to be Chinese?
Do you have to speak Chinese fluently to be Chinese?
Do you have to hang around with Chinese to be Chinese? Do you have to achieve incredible grades at school and Uni to be Chinese?
If this is the case then I'm British with "Chinese-influence"!!! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Totally agree with there, but why BBC (British Born Chinese), why is the word 'Born' included in this term?
| Quote: | | The thing is some of us really do need a term that we can feel comfortable with to adopt as our identity. |
This is quite interesting, the majority of Welsh do not speak Welsh, but they identify themselves with a confident Welsh culture.
| Quote: | | Do you have to speak Chinese fluently to be Chinese? |
How do you feel about the term 'British-Chinese'?
| Quote: | | If this is the case then I'm British with "Chinese-influence"!!! |
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GweiLo
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but why BBC (British Born Chinese), why is the word 'Born' included in this term? |
Perhaps it isn't an ideal term, and lord knows how it became the accepted term for the group of people who feel it represents them.
I think the term just got coined to differentiate between British Chinese, which would include all Chinese settled in Britain (BBC's included), and those who have spent the whole of thiers lives here. I think migrants and those born here, or at least living here since they were very young, often have quite different experiences of life here.
One significant difference which has been pointed out to me is that many of those born in Britain grew up in white communities, all thier friends were white, they spoke English and in many instance little or no Chinese. Lots of people have told me that they never got to know another Chinese person, outside of thier immediate family, until they went to uni. If you were born in HK or Malaysia say, you will have had very different experiences.
Whilst it is good to meet and get to know people who are different from you, we all like to meet with and spend time with people who are similar. People who have shared similar lives, issues, and problems. I think that is all the BBC thing amounts to. I agree it is an odd term, maybe there is a better one, but what does it matter if the people who think they it describes them are comfortable with it?
As it happens when we set up the British Chinese Society it was (I think, if I recall correctly) all BBC's [except me as the token GwaiLo ;-)] on the founding committee. In fact it was the team who had up until then organised all of the social events through the BBC website. But we made a concious decision to use the term British Chinese, partly because we wanted to make it clear that it was an inclusive organisation and partly because the term BBC was strongly associated with that website. My best guess in fact is that site first coined the term, so that it has almost become a brand name. It was certainly the first place I ever came accross the term anyway.
You make interesting conversation Tay. Have we met? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Very odd, possibly coined by some disillusioned unemployed Chinese back in the early 1980s?.
| Quote: | | Perhaps it isn't an ideal term, and lord knows how it became the accepted term for the group of people who feel it represents them. |
I don’t disagree with you there.
| Quote: | | I think the term just got coined to differentiate between British Chinese, which would include all Chinese settled in Britain (BBC's included), and those who have spent the whole of thiers lives here. I think migrants and those born here, or at least living here since they were very young, often have quite different experiences of life here. |
Partly due to the dispersed make-up of the community, which has created an ‘Identity’ issue.
| Quote: | | One significant difference which has been pointed out to me is that many of those born in Britain grew up in white communities, all thier friends were white, they spoke English and in many instance little or no Chinese. Lots of people have told me that they never got to know another Chinese person, outside of thier immediate family, until they went to uni. If you were born in HK or Malaysia say, you will have had very different experiences. |
I feel it is just a ‘temporary-term’ and in time, as people get used to seeing Chinese faces on TV etc...and realise that this tiny community contributes, both economically and socially, maybe then we will be acknowledged as part of the overall British identity(?).
| Quote: | | Whilst it is good to meet and get to know people who are different from you, we all like to meet with and spend time with people who are similar. People who have shared similar lives, issues, and problems. I think that is all the BBC thing amounts to. I agree it is an odd term, maybe there is a better one, but what does it matter if the people who think they it describes them are comfortable with it? |
I don’t believe we have, maybe this is the Buddhist side of me:)
| Quote: | | You make interesting conversation Tay. Have we met? |
I am sure a majority of UK Chinese get asked what nationality are you, for example when meeting another traveller? The person replies British, they ask again, but look straight in your eyes hinting at your Chinese appearance, you would then say my parents were originally from HK, feeling a bit intimidated and misunderstood.
Migration and immigrants has been and will be part of a natural human movement, dating back millions and millions of years. Old and new identities constantly shift and change. It is about realising this and not avoiding the point.
There has never really been one moment when I don’t realise I am not British, realising and understanding my Vietnamese-Chinese background at the same time, 100% comfortable with my identity is the way to go for the UK Chinese community.
Remember 'Disillusionment Creates Diaspora!' (DCD) |
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GweiLo
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I feel it is just a ‘temporary-term’ and in time, as people get used to seeing Chinese faces on TV etc...and realise that this tiny community contributes, both economically and socially, maybe then we will be acknowledged as part of the overall British identity(?).
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Well, only time will tell. But as the term is really only used by a particular cohort of chinese to signal thier common, and discint as they see it, heritage, I think people will continue to describe themselves thus. I know an awful lot of Chinese that are very happy to describe themselves as BBC, and they still regard themselves as part of the wider Chinese community.
As I said before, I really don't think it is any different from my wife describing hersefl as Chinese Malaysian. Sometimes Malaysian is good enough. Sometimes Chinese is good enough. But Chinese Malaysian is the best term to describe her roots, culture and sense of identity. I don't see how BBC is any different. OK, she wouldn't call herself Malaysian Born Chinese, but it just terminology. The meaning is understood. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| GweiLo wrote: | | OK, she wouldn't call herself Malaysian Born Chinese, but it just terminology. The meaning is understood. |
Now you understand my point, about it sounding odd, but yes I agree it is just a terminology - MBC;) |
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dl_munbun81
Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 3
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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i love being a bbc, i find it more offensive if i get labelled a hongkie cos i aint
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Night night, sweet dreams, sleep tight and take lots of care. |
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cellocello
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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That English gentlement just stripped it down to the essential: why there is not such word like BBI?
Why some Chinese here are so obssessed with the term of British Borned? I suppose they are probalbly expecting some Supriority - You see, I am not those poor Chinese run away from that humble China!
I don't give a **** to this, because I am proud of being a indigenous Chinese! I am a new immigrant, working for a British company which is desperately keen on entering Chinese market. But I would never ever lable myself as a English, simply because i am not. I don't think its a shame being a Chinese, but it's a big shame for some of those BBCs denying they are simply Chinese.
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China borned Chinese - I am proud of it!!! |
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GweiLo
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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cellocello,
I think you misunderstand.
The term British Born Chinese isn't a denial that one is Chinese. It merely indicates that one is a Chinese who was born in Britain. I have not met a BBC who would regard him/herself as superior to anyone, and I have not met a BBC who would look down on you because you were born in China.
If you have had bad experiences with BBC's can I suggest that, assuming you are in London or can get here, you try meeting up with this group. You will find that they welcome Chinese people living in Britain, no matter where those Chinese people were born.
http://www.britishchinese.org.uk |
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