The term "Asian" in British Society

jenjenpop · Joined: 19 Dec 2003 Posts: 1

Does anyone else find it really offensive when the British press and public refer to "Asians" as ONLY meaning Indian? I get really annoyed.

sp · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 218

Yes, I think it's wrong.

I thought it was especially bad that the BBC used our licence fees to set up a new digital channel called The Asian Network and completely excluded us from it. Please see this thread:

http://www.dimsum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10

eye_candy1870 · Joined: 08 May 2003 Posts: 86

sp,

I would cringe if someone like sp got on TV and 'represented' us chinese. THANK YOU Indians and Pakistanis for not allowing sad folks like sp to air his 'thoughts' on air...

snikto · Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

I wanna say that I get really annoyed too. It totally ticks me off.

There used to be a magazine called aOnline (or aMagazine or something) and it was for Asian Americans. They did include Indians and Pakistanis as Asian. If you look at the "British Asian" magazines, it's like Chinese don't exist.

I flicked through AFM, as an example of an "Asian magazine", and there was an article on Hong Kong. There was no hint of irony when the article referred to HK as the "New York of Asia".

sp · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 218

In the UK media these days, 'Asian' is like a polite way of saying 'brown'. I think it's lazy and inaccurate. Some people say that, historically, 'Asian' means Indian/Pakistani in the UK and we should just live with it, but I don't think this is true.

When you hear about 'trouble in the Asian economies', or whenever you pick up a holiday brochure for Asia, or whenever you read an article about Asian food or Asian cinema the word 'Asian' DOES include our countries e.g. China, Japan and Hong Kong etc.

The rule is: 'Asian' includes Chinese people in areas where we are important, where you can't get away with not including us.

The implication is: When people use 'Asian' but exclude Chinese people, they are basically saying we 'don't count'.

It's annoying when it happens in a context such as 'The Asian Network', or 'celebrating Asian achievment'. The message that goes out to Chinese people is "You are not involved here. You are important enough for us to acknowledge your existence".

And it's just as bad when you hear it in a negative context e.g. "Asian youths run riot in Oldham" etc. Were there any Chinese kids among them? If not, don't describe the crowd as 'Asian'.

At the end of the day, we make up a massive part of Asia and we are Asian people. Other ethnic groups do not have exclusive rights to that term.

sp · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 218

UK media is full of reports now about 'Asian bird flu'. Which countries are they referring to?

Vietnam and Thailand.

Note, they are not calling it 'Oriental bird flu'

HO KAI WAH · Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 3 Location: LONDON

I think When people use 'Asian' but exclude Chinese people, they are sad, I feel sorry for them, because they don't know nothing about the world or Asian.

They should go out more to open their eyes.

GweiLo · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 149

sp,
of all the issues we have ever talked about I think this is one of the trickiest. It is absolutely clear to me that a large proportion of Chinese in the UK find the term oriental offensive. And so far as I am concerned if they find it offensive then we shouldn't use the term.

The problem is that I am only aware of this because I know so many Chinese people and we talk about these things. So the term is going to continue to be used by people in complete ignorance of the offence they may be cuasing until such times as they are enlightened by education.

What I don't know is what strategies are effective in communicating this idea to non chinese. I have thought for a long time that it would be a good thing for more Chinese to be politicised and I have also thought that those who care about these things and want things to change shouldn't waste time reinventing the wheel, but talk to those who have already had to overcome similar problems. In essence I think those who would be best placed to guide a Chinese led campaign would be people already active in race awareness issues.

Guest · Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:15 pm Post subject:

GweiLo · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 149

tay,
If you do not communicate to others how your community feels about an issue, how do you imagine they are going to understand or respect your feelings?

The fact that "oriental" offends many Chinese in Britain is not widely known amongst white brits. I only had it pointed out to me long after I married my Chinese wife (who incedentally doesn't find it offensive anyway). So if I didn't know then what hope of the vast majority of white people knowing.

The solution must be about communication.

If not then you tell me what the solution is?

Guest · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject:

Dimsum was set-up 3 years ago, to raise the awareness both in the Chinese Community and the Wider Community, especially with the Foot & Mouth allegations. This forum is free for anyone to debate openly, Diaspora issues that directly affect the British-Chinese.

To be honest I am not sure about the term ‘oriental’, not widely known amongst non-chinese in the UK to be associated with negative experiences. It is quite different to East Asians born, raised, and educated in the UK, than in Malaysia?

I feel you have misread some of my comments regarding jenjenpop’s feedback- “The term ‘Asian’ in British Society”. Please don’t tell me the term ‘chinky’ is not widely known to be derogative? Neither am I not aware of the term ‘gweilo’ used in a negative tone towards foreigners in Hong Kong, the same with ‘Gaijin’ in Japan.

There is no clear-cut solution because I am not suggesting a solution.

It is about informing and encouraging the Chinese and Wider Community to interact either through workshops, films, etc., bettering the communication. There are plenty of this and I am very happy to see these events taking place.

Previous interactions with the Chinese Community, especially in the 60s & 70s had never been put to the question. The Chinese community in the UK is the way it is today because of the alienation it had felt. Lets not kid ourselves, it has not all been sweet talk.

If a British-Chinese individual questions the way they are treated, why is it such an issue in the UK? Why do we feel intimidated? Because I have all too often felt this, I am sure there are many others who would agree too?

The British-Chinese Community has only just opened itself out, and has recently started to think about its relationship in the UK. Other Chinese communities in Canada and the US for example, have surpassed the first few hurdles, resolving the frictions a long time ago.

We can sometimes see the fruitful outcomes, the Mars Lander Probes is the famous example. It would not had been possible without the 300 American-Chinese Scientist and Engineers contributions on the project.

Maybe this is what we all want to see, the equivalent in the UK. Positives things with talented people regardless of colour or background, who has something in common - British.

For example, the Chinese community in San Francisco were closed off, not by the Chinese themselves, but by the US authorities, hence ‘China Town’, a small area concentrated with Chinese people, self sufficient and cut-off from mainstream society. Only after the 1950s the Chinese community were given their basic human rights to live and work freely where ever they chose.

This is no different to the British-Chinese community experiences today, except it is all happening after 1997. Things started to change for the Black community after the unfortunate Brixton Riots, the same with the Asian community in Bradford, and now it is the Chinese community’s turn needless to say.

malnoh · Joined: 05 Mar 2004 Posts: 42

Guest · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject:

malnoh,
I don’t disagree with you there.

Often it can be difficult for the community to work together as a whole. In a way Dimsum offers the perfect platform as a means to connect all those individuals. This community does not have to gather physically, this discussion forum is an ideal place to communicate and debate.

The Chinese community in the US only accounts for a very tiny proportion to whole the population, but this did not stop them from questioning their basic civil rights.

I don’t believe enough has been done to encourage British-Chinese involvements with educational institutes and government polices etc. If you have a look at Chinese experiences in suburbia, it is largely negative. Neither has Chinese experiences in the city improved much over the last decade. The UK has a long history where confrontation is the only way forward, if there is to be positive social changes.

Bureaucracy is an absolute joke, when it comes to utilising British-Chinese talent.

malnoh · Joined: 05 Mar 2004 Posts: 42

Guest · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:03 pm Post subject:

malnoh, you had made a valid point, the US Chinese should not be the only example used for this UK community to follow. But, I am not quite sure whether the American Chinese community evolved very differently, because most of the many dispersed Chinese communities, all ended up with a few streets, concentrated with Chinese shops, excluded from main stream society and called China Towns.

They may have immigrated to the US for different reasons, i.e. the gold rush and building of the rail roads. The UK community came on trading ships returning from East Asia, and ended up washing clothes and other degrading cleaning jobs.

The reason why they had arrange themselves into ‘enclaves’, was partly due to the alienation. By living and working with in close proximity, gave them security and protection, because during that era they were literally persecuted. This pattern virtually existed in every single China Town in the world(?).

To make another point, the British Chinese community are in their 5th & 6th generation, not the 2nd & 3rd generation as previously assumed. It does not take much to add up the maths.

I feel it is important to understand the history of this community, acknowledging both the positive and negative aspects. And not literally sweep it beneath the door mat, hoping nobody would not notice because people will always question things, it is human nature.

Not enough thorough research has been done with China Towns. There you go if anyone is interested in doing a Research paper or a Phd, this one is worth exploring.

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