Pan Asian UK

rdjkosmo · Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Posts: 2

I Posted this in the "Term Asian in British Society" forum as well

Hello my name is Jeet, and I'm just your typical Asian-American activist over here in sunny San Diego. I'm South Asian, more specifically Punjabi, and my family originally came from England. One observation that I have noticed whenever I visit England is the difference in terminology when it comes to using the word "Asian." Over here in the States the term has found its way in identifying those who are of East Asian decent: Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Viets, etc. However, in England it's associated with South Asians: Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalese, and Sri Lankans. Since the United States Census Bureau takes our statistics and jumbles them up under the word Asian. The South and East Asian, as well as many Pacific Islander communities have been focussed on coalition building, essentially creating one large Asian Pacific American Fist.

I myself am the current chair of an Asian Pacific Islander non-profit organization. I feel that both South and East Asians share several aspects politically, geographically, culturally, economically, and socially that should be taken into account to help bridge these two communities.

What I'm curious about is the nature of the Asian (East and South) community over there in England? Has there been steps to build a coalition?

Also, I find the term oriental as a label for my East Asian counterparts very offensive. All of you are Asian. I just find it very interesting how some of your gripes of being excluded from the term Asian is the exact same ones that Indians are having from being excluded from the term here in the US.

www.sdsuapsa.org

Jeet

Miss E · Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Central London

Hi Jeet

It was nice to hear your views. I completely agree that we should all be called "Asians" in the UK, much in the same way that we use the term "European" to include all people from European countries.

I think the problem in the UK though is that the Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani communities tend to group themselves and largely fail to integrate with the wider British community. Having Indian/Pakistani friends, I know that they find it difficult seeing themselves often as part of a wider British culture, let alone an all-inclusive "Asian" one.

Yes, oriental was used as a derrogratory term by the Victorian British. I find it offensive, but my English (white) friends think its fine. They have never suffered any form of racism, let alone being able to understand how some of us might feel. Its interesting though how everyone knows and recognises that the word "nigger" is offensive...

Miss E · Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Central London

Hi Jeet

It was nice to hear your views. I completely agree that we should all be called "Asians" in the UK, much in the same way that we use the term "European" to include all people from European countries.

I think the problem in the UK though is that the Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani communities tend to group themselves and largely fail to integrate with the wider British community. Having Indian/Pakistani friends, I know that they find it difficult seeing themselves often as part of a wider British culture, let alone an all-inclusive "Asian" one.

Yes, oriental was used as a derrogratory term by the Victorian British. I find it offensive, but my English (white) friends think its fine. They have never suffered any form of racism, let alone being able to understand how some of us might feel. Its interesting though how everyone knows and recognises that the word "nigger" is offensive...

souljah · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4

Thanks to the brother and sister who posted on these topics. Whilst debating eptymology of words allows us to get a clearer interrogations of the definitions, it is clear that why we chinese aren't "Asian" is a result of white racial ideology. Racism is in a way much more deadly and virulent as stereotyping, as social actions of a whole people is reduced to their racial metaphysics. I recommend anyone interested to follow this up by reading Black Skin White Mask by Frantz Fanon and Orientalism by Edward Said.

Whilst this has a huge myriad of implications, in Britain Asia has traditionally refered the Asia raped with gunboats, indentured labour, genocide and opiates. Unable to negotiate a cultural frame of the pig tail wearing native with China's liberation and support of national liberation movements accross the world our country was passed over in silence. "Communist China" became a none-entity, a closed monolith and this view pervails still amongst those who are happy to resort to this crass essentialism of polity. Still many in the West are convinced they cannot learn anything of China. There are obviously a lot more social causes - such as the atomisation of the chinese community, its wide and thin distribution throughout the country, its class/region/language stratification, and very importantly the sheer long hours that Black and minority businesses have to put in to pervail.

I'd like finish suggestively by ressurecting the word "Black", in Britain it has politically refered to the Asian and Afro-caribbean diaspora. Whilst in Britain it never stretched beyond its political definitions like it did in Caribbean "Black" nationalist movements which involved South and East Asians historically.

It is self-evident we are all Asians, it is equally obvious that we differ greatly in language, customs, religion etc however, the commonality (and vartions) of experiences stretches beyond Asian identity. I believe strongly in pan-Asian solidarity, especially in this time of need we must help rebuild our beloved continent that the ocean rose to swallow, and ease the suffering of Her children. But we must build solidarity with all minority communities, never stop chanting down the evils of neo-colonialism and racism all over the world.

A lot of stories behind that "Other: Chinese" box we have to tick...

paul · Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject:

Here is a thought for you.
I am white, English and male - a combination that is not expected to be hit but racism.
It can and has happened.
I understand and agree that in the past the English (and other parts of Britain) engaged in some pretty nasty things - this is history and fact.
This does not mean that we can't get better. I would not suggest for a second that we throw away the history books, they have many lessons for us, but don't use history as a way to get your own back.
History is the past, learn the lessons and use these to avoid future mistakes, don't use it as a reason to hate others.
Racism is both wrong and stupid but it works both ways. Militant groups always make the situation worse. The British national party and minority militant groups could have the same speach writers - just swop a couple of words around.

"But we must build solidarity with all minority communities, never stop chanting down the evils of neo-colonialism and racism all over the world. "

Why not change this to "But we must build solidarity with all communities, Treat all as friends regardless of their colour or background"

Without suggesting that other cultures should be changed, why not show the positive side of these cultures and become accepted as part of normal life. Much easier and you don't need a load of political correctness or a single bullet or bomb to do it.

I don't do PC - just like to be decent to people.
Hope this causes no offence.

porkscratchings · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 112 Location: BirmingHAM

I have no interest in joining anyone's political agenda - namely the leftwing /liberal nonsense expressed by the goal to 'rebrand' my race and culture. I am chinese plain and simple - i do not consider myself to b 'asian' as this is commonly used to refer to indian/pakistanis. I personally see nothing wrong wiv being called chinese as this enables my race to carve its own reputation instead of being grouped as an part of an anonymous entity 'asian' or lumped together wiv pple who are not chinese. This only serves lazy pple who cannot be bothered to distinguish between different groups of pple - the 'they all look the same' mob.

I object to this rebranding and find it just as offensive as white racist attempts to label us 'mongoloids' 'chinks' enabling their society to view us as something we are clearly not: weak, inferior, slaves etc. Identity should be defined by the group concerned, not idiots who think they know better. The fact dat these pple are relabelling other races without their permission, suggests the old imperialist attitude 'we, the superior race/pple/group, know better than you, the ignorant natives; and therefore we are better able to determine ur identity than u yourselves'.

paul · Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject:

porkscratchings - nice one
It is about time all this PC rubbish was scrapped. All it does is cause resentment towards the very people it is trying to protect.
Banning the blackboard in favour of chalk board has no bearing in peoples attitude and won't stop the stupid using the words 'nigger' and 'chink'.
The only way to change attitudes is to become part of the norm of life. At this point i will repeat that i am not suggesting a change in chinese or any one else's culture, just allow the positive to show.
Chinese new year is an ideal way to show the English and others the best side of chinese culture - take the chance.
I am well aware that there is a good and bad side to the chinese in this country - people are people. All this does is go to prove that we are not so far apart as some would want us to be

porkscratchings · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 112 Location: BirmingHAM

oh my god sum1 actually agrees wiv me instead of the usual reaction 'wot drug is he on?'

To follow wot i posted earlier - wot is wrong wiv being 'chinese' dat we need to change it to 'asian' or sumthng else? Do chinese pple think there is sumthing wrong wiv openly acknowledging they are chinese? R we disadvantaged by being chinese? I don't think so. I'm proud to be chinese as my mates r proud to be pakistani, bangladeshi, english etc. If everyone else don't have a prob with being wot they r - why is it that we do?

My perception is that most english pple like chinese food, chinese culture, chinese fashion, chinese work ethics, and generally respect us. Those who have a problem wiv chinese pple r in the minority. This minority should not b allowed to force us to hide away and change our name as if we're going on sum sort of witness protection programme to avoid getting killed. Nor should we regard all Engllish/white pple as hostile to us and we need to hide ourselves from them via this rebranding of the name 'chinese'.

I hav suffered racism but this has not stopped me from having lots of english friends and being very positive about my chinese identity. The way to acceptance is not by making ourselves invisible but by standing out and making ourselves heard.

paul · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:35 pm Post subject:

I can't see whats wrong with being who you are. Just get on with it and do as you do.
Most people have no problem with this.
If living your own life has no ill effect on others then what's the problem.
The problem of racism appears when large groups of anybody turns in and either causes problems of crime or seems to be harmful to the country as a whole.
I am happy to say that i have seen so little of this with chinese people i know.

I has been my experience that most english people either see chinese as handy for food and have little mallace towards them. Some like to go to chinese restaurants and get to like what they see of chinese culture. Thats about it for english people that don't have any chinese friends. Very few of us are racist so don't get too worried.

On the other hand many of the chinese friends i know (thinking of those from mainland, malaysia etc who don't speak too much english) have a very different idea.
You have to remenber that the only english they see are the other side of the counter.
They tend to see the bottom of the pile. Drunken and often nasty, is it any wonder so many have such a poor view of their host country.
A sad situation as this country has so much to offer it's guests.

souljah · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 4

"The problem of racism appears when large groups of anybody turns in and either causes problems of crime or seems to be harmful to the country as a whole. "
Explain this

I aint being the pc one here, have a look at the other stuff you saying:

"I has been my experience that most english people either see chinese as handy for food and have little mallace towards them. Some like to go to chinese restaurants and get to like what they see of chinese culture."

our parents they couldn't say much or do much, but we have education, we travelled round. u'know, we've seen the world beyond the counter - you dont need to apologise for the racists, i know they're not the majority. but to be truthful ive had more racist attacks out of work than at work. I also resent the comparison to fascist politicians, my family has received threatening ph0ne calls from the NF and I've been attacked in the street by fascists. No provocation, I reassure you, just EVERYDAY rural racism.

as for porkscratching's comments i aint trying to carve out some new weird entity and dillute our culture, nor trying to push some patronising liberal crap. i'm just saying its i'm proud of the motherland, which is if i remember correctly in asia, and i aint trying to scramble its diversity together. When british use "asian" to refer to their ex-colonies in asia - that's the imperialist expression. I'm not saying i'm Asian before i'm chinese but i don't like the implicit (British-empire)asia in the world Asian. Knowing what a word means doesnt mean bangladeshis or indians forgot where they came from.

There's a real difference in ethnocentrism and racism. I think ethnocentrism is more dangerous as everyday ethnocentric discourse (physical, visual, verbal whatever) create an exclusionary ethnic experience. I'm not saying we're feeling the weight of history today, and have to pathologically "get back" at the British people.

paul · Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:53 am Post subject:

Pc - don't do it and hope i never will.
As for the comments you wish to be explained - they have no hidden meaning.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

I can't see whats wrong with being who you are. Just get on with it and do as you do.
Most people have no problem with this.
If living your own life has no ill effect on others then what's the problem.
The problem of racism appears when large groups of anybody turns in and either causes problems of crime or seems to be harmful to the country as a whole.
I am happy to say that i have seen so little of this with chinese people i know.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Add the extra lines from the origional post and they return to the origional meaning.
Just in case it's not clear to you i will try to explain that racist elements appear as a result of large number of seemingly harmful people entering as country.
I did not say harmful - just seem to be. And just in case you want to bastardise these comments I will make it clear it's not my cup of tea !

---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------
has been my experience that most english people either see chinese as handy for food and have little mallace towards them. Some like to go to chinese restaurants and get to like what they see of chinese culture. Thats about it for english people that don't have any chinese friends. Very few of us are racist so don't get too worried.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------
There it is again. Simple and true. Just put the origional lines back to see the meaning.
Again to say it another way - most english people I know have no feeling (good or bad) - these just want to eat. Not very PC - I would suggest the PC lobby would be unhappy to hear that not all white males don't hold strong racist, sexist and anti disabled right wing "lets bring back the empire" feelings.

It is a common cheap poitical trick to take lines out af a comment to prove a point that is not there.

As for my comments about those chinese that don't speak too much or any english, I stand by what i said. Again no hidden meanings here. Many have little chance to meet english away from the shop and are are best worried when they see english people in areas like shop kitchens or their homes. I understand that not all mainland and malay fit this but a large proportion do. I have found myself in these places many times and often see worried looks from those who don't know me. I am also aware that there are many illegals and overstays here - I don't care. For the most part they are working for a living and are of no harm to anyone - no problem as far as i can see. My god daughter is an overstay. You would have a hard time finding a girl with a kinder heart or such good attitude as her.

As for racist attacks, i am happy to say I have no dealings with people who do this sort of thing and am sorry that anyone has to put up with this nasty side of what i am sure is a very few English people. (At least I hope so)

My understanding of history is that when an extreme group find power there is often a purge of those they see as unfit. Hitler and stalin are often mentioned but the names and poitical colour have no real meaning. They have in common a need to force an opinion on others and a hunger for power. Lets all learn a lesson and avoid the far ends of politics.
These are the people that you need to be careful of, the ones that do the real harm.
You never know - perhaps if we all give in a little we can get on as friends.

porkscratchings · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 112 Location: BirmingHAM

Newsfeeds

Latest Posts

	Dimsum Forum Index -> Culture	All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1