BBC 2's "Extras" racial slur

Jimmy Cheng · Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 1

How many of us find the term "Ching Chong Chinaman" offensive.

How many of us find the media's representation of us as derisive caricatures offensive?

In tonight's episode of "Extras" (BBC 2), there was a section of the program which portrayed 2 caucasian actors dressed in a Karate Gi and "chongsam" singing a familiar childhood taunt "Ching Chong Chinaman... " to a Japanese male and female.

I found it offensive enough to join this forum and I have also made an official complaint to the BBC.

We do not need the broadcast media to reinforce racial slurs to the South East Asian community. If the actors were dressed to mock a Black person and were singing "Nig Nog, Gollywog" to people of Black origin would this be seen as "funny"?

Would the survivng partner and family of Chen Mi Gao Huang Chen find the sketch "funny"? Especially since racial slurs have the potential to precede racially motivated violence? (I've personally been there and so have my family).

The BBC have a nerve to report about China's "human rights" issues, when the Chinese community in the U.K. are still waiting to be treated as people, not stereotypes.

The Chinese community have more to offer than cooking, kung-fu, triad thuggery, bloken engrish, illegal immigration and so forth.

I am disgusted and disappointed. You'd think this was 1966 not 2006.

Here is a link to the BBC complaints page if needed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

(Edit: broken link replaced)

paul · Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: BBC 2's "Extras" racial slur

Mark-gor · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 23

Lighten up people! First, I took it to be an Alf Garnett type principle: they were showing up the ignorance of racist views. And yes, I laughed despite the fact that I had to put up with the same taunt at school for years.

Second, don't think the Chinese are not susceptible in their humour to racist views. I have lost count of the number of racist jibes about Gweilo's in HK Chinese films. And when it comes to poking fun at Asiana (Indian, Pakistani), the racism is even worse. Those who speak Cantonese may be familiar with a term "Yow Galeh mo kai" (literally, have curry no chicken) which I've heard Hong Kongers say out loud in Indian restaurants out there in front of the waiters, thinking themselves funny.

I was brought up with the monthly black and white old Chinese films made in HK, and the roots of racist comedy in Chinese film certainly can be traced to there at least! When I watch more modern HK productions nowadays the (racist) humour is still there.

Sometimes you got to take your head out of your arse and just get over. I did. (And I did so on two levels: one against ignorant western kids calling me a ching chong chinaman, and on another level where HK locals might hear me speak English to a friend, assume I was pure white, and mutter something about gweilo under their breath.)

numptie · Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 6

Don't be oversensitive. The show was meant to be ridiculing themselves.

[EDIT: ONLINE POKER LINK REMOVED]
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Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

Meh, what do you expect. Anything that exists which can insult and condescend a person or group, will be used. Just how many jokes that are only funny because they use a reference to race do you know? Loads, I bet.

It's how you react to it which is key, as it affects the way you feel afterwards. Just act superior to them - you can't change people's opinions in a lifetime, no matter how misguided they are, but you can choose not to feel pissed off by them.

In response to Mark gor, its true that racism in the far east is just as bad, though they are less in your face about it, hence foreigners there tend not to feel offended as much.

To be honest though, this kind of obvious racism doesn't bother me - society as a whole know its wrong, and tend to shy away from it when you hear someone or some group like the BNP spout racist sh*t. It's the closet racists you ned to watch out for - the ones that give you hostile looks, glib remarks here and there- they're the ones that can influence opinions around them through subtlety.

Best thing to do with this lot (and there tons more of these than out and out ones) is to engage them in some racial or nationally related discussion, give them a throwaway comment that they're bound to disagree on and watch that pent up racism flow from their mouths.

ex-VAG · Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 445

That certainly was offensive and stuff like that should never be allowed to be broadcasted on national prime time TV, and no, nig no golliwog would never have been used instead.

The trouble is, as I see it, there's not enough people from the Chinese community who stand up and make a stance at such slurs, and as a result everyone thinks it's acceptable.
Imagine the uproar had that been at an Indian, black or even Jewish person! we'd never hear the f*cking end of it.

It's attitudes like numptie's and Mark-gor's (and no guys I'm not having a go at you) that go on to promote this simmering racism, the "ah it's alright, I've heard it all my life" "don't be so sensitive", yes you may have as we all have been, but it doesn't make it right and brushing it off as a comedy moment won't make things any better and it certainly doens't help all those who come over in order to work or to study.

Have you never thought why the Chinese are never mentioned when race issues come up? Why is it always blacks and Indians?? It's even got to the point where the Indians have nicked a whole continent in order to refer to themselves, Asians?!? Are they having a laugh, when they set up the Asian radio network, do you think they play Malaysian, Japanese, Mongolian, Korean or even Chinese music on there? No, is the answer.

Hello by the way to everyone, I'm new here :D

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 342

Totally agree, at first I thought it was numbers - there weren'tenough people complaining because there wasn't enough numbers to warrant it.

but from the latest stats, there's around 250k British chinese; compare this with around 50k jews, and the fact they make such a fuss over the smallest of issues that might hint at an insult, it's clear this isn't the case. What we need is more bold, affluent and outspoken reps that can put across our points effectively. Unfortunately, the ones who are actually in that position (literate, good, native English speakers) are in well off jobs and are satisfied with their life on the whole, that they feel they can put up with the occasional ching chong joke.

i've just been browsing around concerning recent racial stirrings in the US, some fatty by the name of Rosie o Donnell with the above mentioned "joke". Seems it's more public there, which is good because they can then make it an issue and push forward towards changing acceptance of it.

Mark-gor · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 23

Ex-vag, can't say I agree. I think many people have lost sight of this particular case. While I agree that racism should be met with as much disapproval and complaint as possible, in this case it just doesn't apply. Why? Because the whole premise of the Ching Chong Chinaman line was to highlight and laugh at racism, in the same vein as Alf Garnet.

If you're too young to remember Alf Garnet in 'Til Death Us Do Part, then a similar comparison can be made to Borat as played by Sacha Baron Cohen. In one particular episode Borat exhorts the rednecks in a bar somewhere in the US of A to join in singing "Let's Throw the Jew Down the Well". Uncomfortable watching? It certainly was. Not because it was supposedly racist as hell, but because of the willingness of so many to join in with the apparent racism.

How was this not racist? It was designed to demonstrate the bigotry of racist America, and it succeeded. How do we know that it was truly designed that way (as opposed to being just overt racism)? Because Sacha Baron Cohen is himself Jewish (and quite religiously so!) and is now well known for sending up politicians or members of the public to look like the fools they are. Borat the film is incredibly successful and popular in Israel as a result.

And this is my point. Some people here seem to have lost sight of the fact that the Extras line was designed to make us laugh at the sheer stupidity of such racist views in today's society. Just like Borat. Just like Alf Garnet. It is NOT the same as Roy Chubby Brown talking about Ching Chong Chinamen!

And by the way, you say they wouldn't dare do something similar to Jews on TV or film. Clearly you haven't watched Borat. I recommend you do. It should put the whole Extras thing in a new perspective.

ex-VAG · Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 445

Ok, I kinda hear what you're saying. But, as in the example given a Jew is taking the piss out of Jews, in the program on BBC the Kumars, the Indians are taking the piss out of Indians, the blacks in Desmonds, imagine the uproar should this have not been members of their own culture.
You say that Borat caused a furore, how much so though, enough for the film to be in the news and therefore generate publicity? Think about it....

Does it make it alright to take the piss out of your own people for laughs but not others?

Come to think about it, apart from the Chinese detective, when was the last time we had our own community regularly feature on TV?

And I think the current hoohaa with BB certainly confirms my opinions previously mentioned!

KK · Joined: 03 Aug 2009 Posts: 1

I bet no-one would complain if it was "anti-" white...

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

??? A wolf dressed in 'cheongsam' ????? undressed

KK ??? From Tennessee ????

kang dàyé · Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: KK

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

Kang,

Thanks for the additional information.

However, my first impression of the Scottish was better that those down south.

When I first landed in UK, racism and sexism was rampant and in my daily life. Today, I learnt that if you want to combat 'discrimination', it is to 'extract respect' from those your life touched, in the way you lived your life.

As to vermins like the BNP and the KKK, these pathetic virus lived life in the 'excreta' of human kind. Like the present 'swine flu', these virus only reared their heads, when humanity is weaken by illness. To combat the illness, humanity please take advice, enrich your soul and take advice and your medicine.

zombiehellmonkey · Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 195

You're seriously mistaken if you are talking about the comedy show written by Ricky Gervais. If you think that it is intended to be offensive to the Chinese, the meaning of comedy SATIRE completely escapes your understanding. The tongue in cheek fun poking is AT ignorance itself, a caricature of stupidity.

Censorship is a dangerous thing, and a double edged sword, because whenever you agree to silence someone, you reduce your own freedom to speech; if this concept is difficult to understand, read 'Fahrenheit 451'.

Although the Jewish people have their Anti-Defammation League, ADL, it has earned much negative criticism from the public media (the most notable case was to their objection of the representation of Jewish people in the Mel Gibson movie, 'The Passion of the Christ'), as well as their censorship of the true number of Palestinian casualties in the Gaza conflicts.

As Pensggs said in an older discussion, it's better to educate people about the Chinese culture, than to restrict others freedoms.
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Adee · Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 47

I remember another bit of the program where one of the main female characters were singing the 'my dad's Chinese, my mum's Japanese' song whilst pulling the corner of her eyes at a Chinese girl. Of course it wasn't intended to offend East Asians rather it was done to poke fun at the racist who was making the joke. But having said that no doubt most Chinese who have suffered from racism would feel uncomfortable whilst watching it, so it's understandable why some will be offended.

As much we don't want to censor the media for the sake of political correctness I do think however it's perfectly fine for members of the Chinese community to voice our opinion about it whether we're agree with it or not. As long as it's done in a reasonable way that is. It's true censorship is not going to get rid of racism but it's important to put our opinions across so that we can have a dialogue and understanding between ethnic groups as well as discussing things amongst our own community, like we're doing now.

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