Black: the colour and the race

Guest · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 5:09 pm Post subject: Black: the colour and the race

I've just come from a very interesting conversation with one of my friends. He is black. We were talking about black magic and spirituality and stuff, and he said to me that he doesn't like calling it black magic, as the word black always has negative connatations. Eg black spot, black ice, black sheep.

I argued that the word black in that sense, is denoting the colour, and the colour black is dark. Just like white is pure and red is danger.

We talked about how Asians and Chinese women like to whiten their faces cause they think it's more pretty.

He felt that because of white people's 'propaganda' the colour black is always associacted with something that is bad, he could only think of one case where black is good....to be in the black and not in the red, as in money, not Bullseye.

So what do you think? Is black just a colour or have have been indoctrinated, by white people, to think that black is negative?

Ah Rong

PS Why has there never been a Chinese person on Big Brother, or why don't they have BB in HK or China?

eye_candy1870 · Joined: 08 May 2003 Posts: 86

i wouldnt start a race issue as you will get banned for being racist....LOL

eye_candy1870 · Joined: 08 May 2003 Posts: 86

my brothers gf brother is going to be on big brother in malaysia. Well thats what my brother told me, dunno if its true. prolly bullshitting.

assis104s · Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 145

I have heard this view as well ah rong.

I thought it was a bit extreme at the time, but then I thought about all the 'black' things that were associated with black and it did make me wonder.

I'm still not sure if it is related to a race issue, however, surely it would be more obvious to link black=bad / white= good to day and night time?

hairy fingers · Joined: 03 Apr 2004 Posts: 17

What about the expression "yellow belly" or "to be yellow" meaning to have no courage?

Does anyone know where it originated from? Does it stem from the Chinese railroad workers in America ? Was it mentioned in "Dragon;The Bruce Lee Story"?I've forgotten.

GweiLo · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 149

Ah Rong,
Your mate has a reasonable point I think. I am not sure about where the colour black became associated in European culture with things negative, but I suspect it probably goes back to pagan times. Hence I doubt the origins have anything to do with race.

But that doesn't negate your friends perspective. Language and culture change and adapt over time and so maybe it is about time that we rid ourselves of phrases that potentially demean racial groups.

Hairy Fingers.
I think you are probably right about the yellow thing being of American origin, but I am just guessing.

Vaughn · Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 3 Location: London

Dear Ah Rong,

Your argument sounds a little contradictory:

"I argued that the word black in that sense, is denoting the colour, and the colour black is dark. Just like white is pure and red is danger"

You argue that the word "black" is just 'denoting the colour', and yet you equate white to purity and red to danger, which are concepts. I think that is exactly what your friend is referring to when he says that there are (negative) concepts attached to the word black.

I do think that in Western society black is associated with negative things and danger. I don't know to what extent that affects the perception of black people, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

snikto · Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 28

what about "chinese whispers" ???

GweiLo · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 149

I had never thought of Chinese Whispers as having any negative conotations, but a bit of searching found this.

http://www.word-detective.com/back-x.html#chinese

Whilst it says nothing about Chinese Whispers, and I have never heard most of the other phrases, it does mention Chinese Puzzle which is still widely used.

The game of Chinese Whispers is much older than th examples given on that site though, and I read on another site that it was so called because it originated as a Childrens Game in China.

Can anyone throw any light on this?

Guest · Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject:

I always though that the colour black had negative connotations stemming from early mans fear of the dark and the things lurking in it............. just a thought.....

lyllee · Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 12 Location: London

" We talked about how Asians and Chinese women like to whiten their faces cause they think it's more pretty."

I do think the colour black has been unfairly presented in bad connotations throughout history. However, nowadays the colour black is viewed as being trendy and modern because people no longer directly associate the colour with bad connotations.

As an extra point to note, lots of western women like to go to beauty parlours in order to get a fake sun tan so they can be darker.

Guest · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 1:03 pm Post subject:

Chinese people like white skin because it's different (to their own and the people that surround them). Similarly, 'white' people like dark skin because it's different (maybe also because it's indicative of wealth i.e. they can afford to go on holiday somewhere where it's really sunny!).

Yes, many of the sayings that involve the colour black can be interpreted as being negative - but I doubt that many of them have their origins in the colour of people's skin. And if you care to look there is the odd phrase which includes white which could be deemed to be negative (white elephant, white bread).

There's a preponderence on this site and those similar with trying to link everything to race and racism.

GweiLo · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 149

You make some good points peter.

And lets not forget fashions change.

In the 1500's it was fashionable for english women to paint themselves a deathly white, now they get a Brazilian so that they don't have any white bits at all!

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