Iraq - what do you think?

tenpence · Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 173

The threat of war is hanging over our heads. Do you think that it is inevitable, and do you think that we are right to support the US? What do we have to gain?

Do the Iraqi people deserve this?

sp · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 218

I think the war is only about one thing - oil. Whatever happens, Bush wants control of Iraq's oil reserves (currently the second largest in the world behind Saudi Arabia). Whichever route is taken (invasion, coup d'etat, diplomacy), this is the ultimate goal.

I recommend everyone reads this excellent paper by Andrew Oswald, Professor of Economics at Warwick University, which describes the ever-increasing importance of oil in terms of world power (it was written well before the current military build-up). It is viewable as a pdf file here:

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/faculty/oswald/oct20 01oilshiftrev.pdf

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http://www.stevepang.clara.net

darntart · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 64

I read the article and it is very depressing to be honest. What I'd like to ask though is alough it doesn't tie so directly in with oil, do you think that the situation in Iraq is a reflection of also what is happening with North Korea, and Afghanistan? Do you think that these events are interlinked or totally separate issues that should be treated as such?

tenpence · Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 173

Blair: Iraq oil claim is 'conspiracy theory'
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,875173,00. html

porkscratchings · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 105 Location: BirmingHAM

Oil and politics are involved.

Iraq has oil which it cannot sell due to the trade embargo. The Western economy is driven by oil and I think they do not want to be dependent on Saudi Arabia who controls most of oil production in the world. Sim with Afghanistan on a smallar scale - it has untapped sources of oil and mineral deposits essential to power all the electronic equipment we take for granted.

North Korea has none of the above - and has the advantage of being located next to China. China will take a very dim view of Americans starting a war in her backyard. Also a lot of American and UK goods are produced in China creating a relationship with the 2 countries that folks on all sides don't want to lose. Remember pple are benefitting from the money made out of this relationship. A cold war with China will threaten this.

Iraq and Afghan are not situated near powerful neighbours. Iraq is close to Saudi who is allied to America as the latter is the biggest comsumer of its oil. The rest of the Arab nations are too weak and divided amongst themselves to stand up to American aggression.

I don't think North Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq are separate events to be treated as separate issues since America is involved in all three. We can compare the American response to these three countries and ask ourselves why the different response?

Blair is a Bush lackey - I don't think he can really justify attacking Iraq, hence the name calling of anti-war protesters as conspiracy theorists. Can he account for the discrepency in the American (& UK) response to Iraq, N Korea and Afghanistan?
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Porkscratchings

darntart · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 64

Saturday 15th February 2003 – ENGLAND & WALES – London

The march will now have TWO assembly points. The main assembly point, permitting the march to travel down Whitehall, is Embankment (tubes: Blackfriars, Temple, Waterloo*). A second assembly point is Gower Street (tubes: Tottenham Court Rd, Goodge St, Warren St, Euston*). Assemble at 12:00 to march at 12:30pm.

Saturday 15th February 2003 – SCOTLAND – GlasgowWe want as much of the march as possible to arrive at 1.30pm in time for a "Jericho Rumpus" when Tony Blair is due to start his speech at 2pm. Rally at 2.30pm. The demonstration is being organised by the Scottish Coalition for Justice Not War.

For more info go to: http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

darntart · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 64

China joins anti-war push
US war plans were dealt another blow when China backed a proposition that would extend UN inspections. A German government source said 11 of the 15 UN security council members now supported a joint French-German-Russian thrust to have the inspections continue.
http://www.mwaw.org/article.php?sid=1978

sp · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 218

The White House is now actively encouraging people to panic in an effort to stir up fear amongst the population. Frequent references are being made to "the safety of the American people" even though there has been no evidence of any threat to this saftey from Iraq.

The starting point for this war was Bush and Cheney's desire to control Iraq's oil. But Bush and Cheney have no legal or political right to do that. When leaders wish to do something beyond their legal powers, they have to create a situation in which people allow them to exceed their legal powers. By scaring the general population (and indeed the world) into a state of panic, Bush and Cheney are going to be allowed to invade a soveriegn state and claim its natural resources. It will be a bonaza for the oil and arms industries, which also happen to the industries most closely linked to Cheney and Bush. And all the time the Amercan people think they are fighting a war against terrorists.

I now think this war is possibly the biggest power game the world has ever seen. God knows why Blair is going along with it.

Interesting link: "The Road to Dictatorship" - The oldest trick in the book

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/index.html

darntart · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 64

The Japan Council against Atomic and Hydrogen Bombs (Gensuikyo) said it delivered a statement Tuesday to US president George Bush and prime minister Junichiro Koizumi, saying US use of force would violate the UN charter and that Koizumi's support for Washington treads on Japan's pacifist constitution.

http://www.mwaw.org/article.php?sid=2163&mode=thread&order=0

tenpence · Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 173

Blatant pro war coverage on the BBC news last night...
there were massive protests last night rouund the world, and particularly around London - why was there hardly any reportage of this?

"The BBC is still treating the anti-war movement as "just another demo". It
has not understood the chasm that has opened up between parliament and
public opinion."

"There were huge protests across the world yesterday, including the
USA, Belgium, Egypt, Spain, India and Switzerland. Channel 4 called it "one
of the largest days of world demonstrations."

www.mwaw.org

sp · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 218

I'm surprised that there has suddenly been a huge fuss made about US POW's faces being shown on Al Jazeera when in the opening days of the war, all 'coalition' tv channels were showing tv pictures of Iraqi POWs in which their faces could clearly be identified. Now all of a sudden it's 'disgusting' and morally unacceptable.

sp · Joined: 27 Feb 2003 Posts: 218

A few days ago I discovered a Russian site that paints a very different picture of the war. The articles on the site make very convincing reading, especially its military analysis, but of course there is a stong possibility the site is using misinformation to damage the coalition.

Even so, considering how controlled our own media's reporting of the war has been, I think the site is worth monitoring for an alternative view of events. The lastest update is here:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news081.htm

sp

AlfredSong · Joined: 09 Jun 2008 Posts: 2

I dont think we should be supporting him! Not only are we loosing British soliders, but look at all the economic effects that are spilling over to the UK. The mortgage market is quickly loosing value as an effect of the US mortgage market fall, or basically crash. The last update I could find was this article from bbc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7421126.stm
and also banks are having serious issues now too. Then there is the 'Pension Crisis' that was pre other economic problems. http://uk.moneto.eu/pensions/pension-protection/crisis/
Now we are leaved with an overvalued pound, skyrocketing food and oil prices. Something is quiet wrong here. If the U.S. gets control of oil then they had better give us a big big portion of it for the support.
Hope you guys enjoyed my rant Rolling Eyes

Cheers

T5unamie · Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 65

population control, the more Americians that die from stupidity the better.

This topic is old, we all know it's wrong. We just all don't do enought to stop it. IF you really really wanted to do something to stop it stop using electricity in the UK or a car as well as any product that uses oil to produce (plastic) and oil to make. (electric power stations using oil as fuel).

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