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chunxueping
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Surrey, UK
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 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Penseggs.
This is an aspect of history I have not seen before.
It seems the British made some sort of mad invasion of Tibet in 1904 which was quite horrible, but later treaties recognized China's sovereignty. I suppose some problems arose because between 1910 and 1950 China was in no position to assert that authority due to collapse of central government, followed by problems with Japanese and Russians and second world war and revolution. Quite complex, no wonder everyone can pick their version of history. I cannot find any reference to British encourage of China to assert authority in Tibet but I have found some claim of CIA ceasing involvment in Tibet around then. That would be consistent with Mao seizing power in October 1949. That I do understand.
To many foreigners messing about in China in the past, that is why we not like interference in our "Internal Affairs."
I suspect main problem is Tibetans do not see benefits coming to them but to new immigrant Han Chinese and resent this.
Sigh! I try to explain to colleagues today about this in "tea room." People want to know "why I killing Tibetans." I say "I never kill Tibetan, never been there, never met one, dont want to go there, its cold and horrible, no air to breathe. I know less than you about this problem." Good humour of course, no trouble, colleagues are nice to me. |
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BBC1
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with what Jeff has said in his initial post.
I am glad that I wasn't the only person to think that the news reporting about the whole thing was a little biased and does not exactly stand up to what one would expect from a properly investigated piece of journalism.
What I saw from the video images shown was that there is a big riot (showing 'peaceful' monks kicking the crap out of cars and front doors of buildings) and the state police have been sent in to deal with it. That's just what any other normal government would do.
As to accusations of the government restricting media reports... Even the video shots that were done in secret by BBC cameramen don't appear to show anything incriminating against the way the state police and army were handling the situation. On the other hand, I was disgusted at how the reporters in the video tried to paint the police and army as criminals without the video evidence to back it up. Sure they got some people to say stuff but who were they and would they have had a biased view?
I recently caught a bit of a show on BBC 2 where there were several people chatting about some stuff to do with some Chinese designs of buildings and other arts type things. Rather than critique the designs from a rational point of view, the issue of human rights was brought in to the discussion time and time again as the reason why they felt that the pieces or exhibition did not show any real expression - because those Chinese designers/artists/exhibitionists were so restricted in their thoughts for so long that they were some how not capable of expressing themselves. As though human beings just stop thinking or expressing themselves if the government tells them to. I was shocked at what I was watching! If the speakers thought that the art / design / engineering of whatever they were talking about was crap then just say that it's crap!!! Don't bring politics in to it!
I am quite sick and tired of the way in which the British media as a whole always paint China and Chinese people in a very negative light. I am not saying that all is fine with China and the Chinese government as it stands now. There are lots of things that need to be changed and improved but it's not going to happen overnight. Incidentally, the one area where I think the Chinese government is lacking the most is its PR department. They are not anywhere near as slick as the other major governments - I mean the USA and Britain can invade an entire country (Iraq) against the will of its own citizens and still come out looking like the good guys!
I don't think ranting on this forum will change the way in which the media report things on China but what else can we do? |
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pensggs2
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: pensggs |
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Yes, xueping, all Chinese working in an English(British) orientated environment, get tar with the brush of 'you Chinese are aggressors against these poor peaceful religious asthestic peace-loving Tibetans who like their leader the Dalia Lama, are peaceful people.
The Chinese are now the 'fall' guy. Hated in the West for their cheap labour; taking away our jobs in the West, polluting the world, asylum seekers, different, being Communists, etc, etc.............
Whenever China is in the news, we, because of our skin are tarred with the same brush or the incidents will be used to judge your Chineseness.
It is now not just Tibetans against China, it is the world of western Buddhism influenced by Tibetan Buddhism, against China. The world forgot that Buddhism is an essential part of being Chinese too.
The news from the eyes and mind of a western person will always be biased against the Chinese. This is the fact of life. |
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chunxueping
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 453
Location: Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:42 am Post subject: |
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No they were not. They were trying to explore my feelings for the situation and seeking knowledge. There was no prejudice. They knew very well I was not actually "killing any Tibetans."
Most people are not idiots, they know very well the TV news is not true picture, it is the best that can be done at the time. There is no BBC cameramen there. What we see is from China reporters or citizens managing to smuggle a film out. You really think China let the BBC or CNN into Tibet?
I dont find hate or prejudice from most people. We find what we give out. If we walk around with hate and self-pity in our hearts that is what we will find. |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 574
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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What exactly is the truth?
Is it that a small section of Tibetans are against Chinese rule and rose up by riot? (This must have been co-ordinated of course rather than spontaneously.)
Or is it large section of Tibetans are against Chinese rule?
I favour the 1st, that it is a small section. The activists/propaganda machines outside China are blowing up the picture to make it seem as if the whole of Tibet wants to rise up.
Time will tell. I cannot believe that the modernisation of Tibet implies the destruction of Tibetan identity and culture, but opposition groups are constantly claiming that this is the case.
Last edited by Edwina Lee on Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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joybetluck
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Truth is everybody including many chinese likes the peaceful teachings of the Da lai lama.
He is however used as a pawn by various interest groups to get more concessions out of China.
More Human rights and freedom for Tibet with threat of boycott against the Olympic. I am sure he hates it as much as anybody else.
It is amazing how many people in this world think they can be the rightful and capable PM of China and subdue the backward chinese!
Here is a link explaining China legitimate claim to Tibet.
Tibet is part of China for more than 700 years
http://www.index-china.com/index-english/Tibet-s.html
Backing Tibet is an easy option. Things are bound to be get better. When they are old and grey they can tell their grandson I stood up for Tibet! |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 574
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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Jeff Minter
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3578941.ece
| Quote: | | He also described seeing a Canadian tourist step in to rescue a young Chinese man being attacked by the crowd. “They were kicking him in the ribs and he was bleeding from the face,” he said. “But then a white man walked up ... helped him up from the ground. There was a crowd of Tibetans holding stones. He held the Chinese man close, waved his hand at the crowd and they let him lead the man to safety.” |
Interracial man-love, there's nothing that comes close 
Anyway, it seems I've made a mistake. I've finally seen the light. The Chinese are bad. Very bad. Boycott the Olympic Games in China. Boycott all Chinese products. FREE TIBET. |
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Jeff Minter
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 311
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| joybetluck wrote: | Truth is everybody including many chinese likes the peaceful teachings of the Da lai lama.
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I have his book, it's awesome! The only flaw is the anti-China diatribe I have to put up with throughout... it seems he (and the co-author) feels the need to squeeze in something anti-chinese every few pages. |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 574
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff,
I am confused with the state of mind from the last 2 posts in this thread.
What is the Dalai Lama's book called. I'll try to find it from my local library. |
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 574
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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Edwina Lee
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 574
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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Goodedge
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 44
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Can anyone tell me had Tibet in any time in history been a sovereign country before the troops moved in, and did they move in becos Tebitans declared independance??... |
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joybetluck
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Jeff
It was a little hardback. I think it is the selective quotes of the Da Lai Lama.
There is no politics in it at all. It has headings like Love, Patient, Fear etc under its headings. Very insightful about the human condition.
Unfortunately I no longer have it.
Which book have you got that is full of anti Chinese rhetoric? I doubt if it has been approved by the Da Lai Lama.
Amazon has a selection. Any of these?
http://www.amazon.com/Dalai-Lamas-Book-Wisdom/dp/072253955X
You can read about Tibet here. Skip the first two pages of economic statistics if it is too Blairite for your taste.
http://www.index-china.com/index-english/Tibet-s.html
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200105/14/eng20010514_69926.html
There is a Second WW American film showing Tibet as being part of China at the BBC forum, posted by tsango
http://66.111.36.90/forum/showthread.php?t=45279
I dread to think what would happen if Tibet separate from China. I guess the Tibetans would be laughing all the way to the bank since virtually all of China rivers originate from there. Get on your marks financial advisers! |
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Goodedge
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 44
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! joybetluck....
Case closed, there is no issue here then, just a bunch of trouble causing Tibetan western influenced chavs...Fcuking ungrateful Tibetans!...they dont even know history, how many times have they've been rescued from foreign occupation... 
One other thing, the chinese authority's clamp down on descent of any kind is 'consistant', they are just as unforgiving with the chinese as they are with Tibetans...No special treatment there!... |
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