Tibet

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 311

Just read the news on the fighting in Tibet:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7296837.stm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3551219.ece

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 453 Location: Surrey, UK

Yes but read down one paragraph further than the selective quote and it says witnesses report SIX bodies, three men, three women, all Tibetan. Hardly ethnic cleansing or a holocaust against Chinese people.

Nobody can welcome such violence but we don't know how bad yet. We can only hope it will be contained. Nobody can profit by this.

The people who celebrate this are insane but safe in their living rooms. Take no notice of them.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 311

It seems from most of the accounts the Tibetans are the aggressors, that's why I'm rather shocked to see reader comments promote such violence. People are killed and wounded just for trying to live their lives, and the readers endorse that.

Some of the people sound so fanatical, even the anti-American imperialism movement never promoted such blatant zealots...

"Chinese people and soldiers go home!" "Chinese domination" "Chinese Imperialist aggressors"

WTF?

The internet is great because it does show true feelings, feelings which won't be spoken in real life in fear of reprisal or lawbreaking. If the same sentiments shown there are felt in reality, whose to say when the overseas Chinese, whether we were here for decades or recent arrivals, should just "go home"?

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 453 Location: Surrey, UK

It is easy for someone sitting in his bedroom to type a few slogans. That is no threat.

I fear for the lives of innocent people caught up in this. The majority will not want violence to happen. The People's Army is the real power there and the quicker they are able to stop this trouble the fewer people get hurt.

I pray peace and sanity will return to the region.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 311

Unfortunately, the chinese army are branded villians, and while they are the only ones to restore peace and order, they will be vilified for whatever they do. I've also just noticed that the Dalai Lama is nothing more than a propaganda machine against all that is China. Despite Tibetans KILLING chinese people (not soldiers, just everyday civvies like you and me), he's still picking on the Chinese army to "show restraint".

Consider Iraqi 'insurgents' killing an American soldier, or Palestinian killing an Israeli - the backlash is swift and severe, yet they face no retributions on a global scale, yet the chinese always do.

You may think faceless comments behind a computer harbours no threat, but it's clear that there is resentment towards the chinese people; that can easily become violent, whether that's sporadic racist attacks towards isolated chinese; organised attacks on a bigger scale (wiki Jakarta and Solomon Island riots); or currently in Tibet.

assis104s · Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 144

yes I agree that the press is reporting in a way that make China out to be villians, but really they do this quite lot! It's very easy for them to point the finger and make China out to be the new baddie, just cos they'v e killed Saddam, there's no more threat from USSR etc.

Media reporting always *does* have bias I'm afraid, and it enourmously influences the way people think, hence the call for Chinese blood.

It's very easy for people in the west to point out problems in the east, but they should also remember that they are not innocent either, just look @ N. Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel,the dictatorships they have supported etc.

Personally I am very sad that the problems have errupted in such a way to culminate in so many deaths. I hope things can be resolved quickly too.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 311

So what, just take it on the chin? We should just accept that non-chinese media is biased against anything chinese?

Fine, if it doesn't affect people. But like I said before, being resentful quickly leads to anger, discrimination, then violence. Guess who's going to be on the frontline?

You may think examples in Indonesia and Solomon Islands are in distant lands - how about the UK? Thousands of chinese who settled here after helping the Brits with the war (I think this site has it covered somewhere, to do with Liverpool and Eurasian families) were simply kicked out a couple of years later stemming from local resentment.

That can easily happen in present day Britain.

assis104s · Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 144

yes totally agreed with you on the point of immigration.

I don't think we should just let the media do what it wants though. Discssion on this like this forum, writing for sites that are more balanced in their viewpoints, debating with BBC/ Guardian / Times etc online is important.

We need to ensure our voices and enough of our voices get out there to change the way that media Chinese. The internet has been great at democratizing information and access to information.

remember though when it comes to access to information and unbiased reporting, China / Chinese aren't so innocent themselves.

Jeff Minter · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 311

I've made quite a few comments based on "hypocrisy" and "lack of care to the death of chinese" in The Times -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3559355.ece

surprise, they've all been rejected. Ironic isn't it? One of the pillars of Western society, free speech, does not apply to those stickin up for the chinese. We don't deserve it, lolz.

Read the comments there, it's quite creepy how their hatred of anything chinese is showing. They're not even bothering to hide this hatred as they normally would were it concerning the black and asian communties.

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 453 Location: Surrey, UK

Oh God its "Race-War" time again.........

Boring, boring.....

quietman · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 56 Location: Liverpool

The press is supporting Tibet because they see the Chinese as occupiers, which they are.

Tibet is so different to the Chinese in its culture,religion, language ,etc.

They must feel resentful and oppressed because they are forced to live as the Chinese want them to, whilst their own religious leader is in exile.

This is going to remain one messy situation as I don't the Chinese leaving voluntarily or without a fight.

Edwina Lee · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 574 Location: High Wycombe, UK

The way I see it, China does have a legalistic claim based on history in Tibet, and in political reality, Tibet is land locked, bounded in the south and west by impassable mountain ranges. Tibet's only realistic economic partner is China. Hence Tibet needs China. But China also needs Tibet.

Tibet has only 2.5 million population living mainly as nomadic subsistence herders. This region is going to stay like this forever without China.

Tibetans can benefit enormously being part of China.

To China, the mangement of its water resources is vital to its future. It is not something a Tibetan government can do.

Tibet is also important to China's nuclear defenses. A Dalai Lama led government will definitely ban all nuclear weapons, and the US appears to be determined to maintain itself as the world's only military superpower at the expense of splitting up China - Taiwan & Tibet.

If Bush had not supported the Dalai Lama after he issued a statement about the 3rd Way (Autonomy of Tibet), all this anti-China feelings would not have been whipped up from a near extinct Tibet Independence movement.

The best future for Tibetans is for Tibet to be part of China.

Europe fought to a stand still and is now evolving into the EU political structure. Europe took Australia, Americas, and they formed stable states with stable boundaries.

Whereas China's unification took 2 millenia to form the natural boundaries they have today. The Himalaya and the Karakoram mountain ranges are nature's boundaries for unification of the China region.

The Crusades was a 350 year war to protect the pilgrims visiting Jerusalem. China would be like most other countries on the planet with the attitude that it's dangerous, don't go there and whip up trouble.

The set up of modern Israel is just like the Crusades.

And so is Iraq War II.

These are manifestations of a crusading mentality unique to the west.

If not careful, Taiwan and Tibet can also become a crusading cause for US presidents.

The Bush admiistration is reckless in its foreign and domestic policies, and the sooner this president goes, the world would be a safer and more peaceful place.

Much damage has already been done, and the world will pay dearly for many years to come.

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 453 Location: Surrey, UK

I do not agree with this analyse.

The relationship between The People’s Republic of China and America are complex due to the so-called “Taiwan Relations Act” and the Six Assurances and Three Communiques which have being issued over more than thirty years as part of the process of normalize relationship between China and USA. In these declarations the United States recognize the Government of People’s Republic of China as sole legal government of China and also recognizes desire of all Chinese people for unified and undivided China.

I have seen nothing to make me think that America has deviated from these principles. Naturally, they would like to see more autonomy for Province of Tibet and Chinese Taipei but this stops short of military assistance should Chinese Taipei declare any form of independence. The Dalai Lama does not call for independence either but for greater autonomy. None of this is a threat to the principle of “One China.”

There is clearly some dreadful resentment building up within the province of Tibet which has caused these riots but I do not see any evidence of outside interference and neither has China made such claims.

I think it is wrong to compare this with the crusades which were a religious aberration in barbaric times. The formation of Israel and the interventions in Iraq were the result of decisions by the former League of Nations and the UN. We might dispute the reasons and correctness of these decisions but they were taken nevertheless.

I only hope this trouble ends soon and the complaints of the people are addressed peacefully. I am visit China again soon and look forward to learning more then.

quietman · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 56 Location: Liverpool

The Tibetans obviously can't see any benefits under Chinese rule, otherwise they would not be rioting and looting.

pensggs2 · Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 28

Imagine Alexander the Great lived long enough to unify Europe under one written language and many regional dialects( or spoken languages). Imagine the British has this seething resentment against the rule of the descendants of Alexander the Great, would America side with Alexander the Great's descendants,many of whom are now Americans, or with Britian, also many former British also American citizens.

The world appear to forget the the trouble was also in Sichuan, a Chinese province; not only in Tibet. I, hear through the British press the invasion of Tibet by the Chinese Communist army in 1951. i did not hear the British press present China's historical claim to Tibet. This is what we call, unbalanced and bias presentation of the news.

No one should condone the discrimination or the victimisation of ethnic Tibetans by the majority ethnic Chinese in China. Protests is a means to vocalise the discontent which must exist. It is the method of suppression of this protests that we all should be against, whether we are Chinese or not.

So, let's hope Xueping's wishes are echoed by all of us. Buddhism is a philosophy. It is the 'nivanda' of the individual that is paramount. Let's hope all Chinese buddhists and Tibetan buddhists unite to bring about peace in the region.

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