Filial, a word that divides the East and West

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

When I was 12, I learnt the meaning of 'filial'. At every turn of my growing years, that word was drummed into my psyche and those of my peers, as our duty towards our parents for giving us life.

As a parent I never taught it to my children as I was educated in western ways; that is, according to my son, that I owe it to them to give them the best start in life because 'they did not ask to be born'.

Once i had a debate with one of my customers about the existence of the word 'filial'. As he was educated in one of the top school on par with the likes of 'Eton', he was sure of himself that no such word existed in the dictionary. When I provided the proof in the form of the Oxford dictionary, he ceased to drink in my establishment again. He could not live with the fact a 'foreigner' had the command of the English Language on par to his.

Yesterday, I heard the word again from a Chinese person with two other brothers. He had a old mother of 84, who had brought up three sons alone, given the best she could for her sons. Her former husband had an affair with the sixteen year old babysitter when the youngest son was a babe in arms. Today, she is in need of their care. One son never forgot his Chinese obligations to his mother; the other two do not think it was their duty. They could not afford to care, yet both of them are financially and time-wise comfortably off. They are westernised!!!!!!!! They had no room in their life for her. One son is 'filial' and the other two sons, according to the 'filial' son, are 'the worst of human kind'; deserving of the worst of 'poh yeang' to befell upon them for the treatment of their mother.

As a westernised mother today I do not ask nor expect my sons to be 'filial'. Neither do I expect to devote the whole of my life to their 'beck and call'. Having subjudgated one third of my life to their interest, I considered myself to have done my duty to them for giving them life.

As a Chinese, being 'filial' is a duty that identify me as being Chinese. To my BBC sons, they have no duty of care to their parents, and caring should come from respect and love. Am I wrong and my BBC sons right???? Open for discussion?????

terrilo · Joined: 27 Apr 2009 Posts: 1

Filial Pensggs,

I can so relate to your piece - it's like reading my own life.

As to the rights and wrongs of being filial, the mindset is a powerful tool that drives what is right and wrong, so it's subjective, and an individual's thinking is beyond another's control. The important thing to me (single mother)is I am proud of my BBC daughter (only child), we love each other, not because we feel duty bound to, but that's how we feel. What more can any parent ask for??

Edwina Lee · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject:

Ideally, parents fulfill their duty of care towards their family, and thus earn the love and respect of their children and spouse to care for them when they grow too old to care for themselves.

This is how the concept of filial duty should be interpreted.

Without the acceptance of filial duty in any society, we should be seeing loads of old parents being dumped.

This is not the case, therefore, filial duty isn't unique to the east or to chinese.

However, some perhaps most chinese parents of older generations formalised this relationship into an authoritarian hierachy without reference to the ideals.

But when the ideals are not met, a socialist oriented state takes up the duty.

What happens to old people with mental problems, with personality problems and so on? Filial duty takes on the task of caring even when the state would not care.

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

The word 'Filial' meaning of the son/daughter

In the East, the word taught by most teachers of Chinese origin, as a Confucian ideal, of the duty of children towards their parents.

In the West, the average Western or BBC do not know of its existence. Try this test. Go out with a pad and ask 10 persons at random, to describe the word 'Filial'. I would not be surprise that not even one person approached would be able to do so. Yes, I have tried this test many times over.

Thanks for your contribution, Edwina. However, I would debate with you the fact that caring and loving their aged parents are identified by most UK citizens as a duty. The word 'Filial' is used as a 'formalised duty' of the son/daughter towards their parents. Being 'Filial' does not require one to care, love or respect one's parents. Being 'Filial' is one's traditional and society's duty in the Chinese culture.

Thanks, Terrilo, for speaking from deep within your heart. Yes, it is natural to want to give the best we can to those we love. Some of this giving might be social expectations and duty but complete giving of oneself happens only in 'love' of one's own children. When caring for one's aged parents come from the love of our parents, this is no need for 'Filial duty'. We are naturallly 'Filial' via our heart.

The Chinese society of the East expects 'Filial duty' as a parental right, with or without the existence of love and respect. These society has fewer old age homes or abandoned aged persons. Children who abandoned their parents are not accorded the respect of the Society they lived in. Children who abandoned their aged parents would be vilified. Often this Society's attitude, allowed some old folks with children who avoided their filial duty, taking actions to 'shame' their 'un-filial' offspring.

In UK, USA and Canada, these societies, the state takes over the processing of aged persons. These Society do not expect the children of these aged persons to have a duty towards their parents. So in the West residential old people's homes and establishment are over-crowded and underfunded because demand exceeds supply. The lack of care of the old by their family in UK will increase the care cost of the UK taxpayers billions in the next five to seven years. UK is not a 'Filial' society.

So, Edwina, I disagree with our conclusion that there is no difference. My generation is probably the generation most able to take care of themselves, unlike my parents generation. The Chinese confucian expectation of the duty of 'women' spelt out, the 'filial' duties of a child to the parents with no refernce to emotional love of one's parents.

The Confucian ideal of 'womanhood'. The unmarried woman shall obey the father, when married to obey the husband, and when widowed to obey one's son.

The Confucian ideal of 'the Family'. The son/daughter should respect and obey one's parent. The parents have a duty to give all to their sons when they are young. When the parents are old, the sons shall accord respect and 'filial duty' towards their parents. No where in the Confucian ideal of family structure, does the word 'love' used in association or relation to 'Filial'

Also, 'Filial' duty only applies to 'aon/daughter to parents relationship'. The word 'Filial' do not apply to spousal relationship. I am being 'pedantic'!!!!

joybetluck · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 206

Nah?!
This is cynicism.
Just because Confucious did not mention the reasoning of his family duties does not mean there was no reason behind his design.

The chinese word of love is very clear of what love means for 1000s of years. It has the components of eyes, tears, heart, embrace which is very much the modern concept of love.

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

The Chinese use two different words for 'Love'

As I was not educated in the Chinesse written language, I shall attempt to use the two words by their phonic sounds

'Ai' The word used for 'I love you'

'Ch'ing' The word used to describe the deeper emotional love for a lover or one's family members, often nutured by long term shared experience of tears, eye, heart and touch.

Yes, joybetluck; a single Chinese words can hold more depths.

chunxueping · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 763 Location: Beijing, PRC

Honoured Pensggs is quite correct, In China there are about 20 ways to express "love."

In my dielect...

“liàn” express a longing for love
“Wò chǒng” is a mild form of love express between friends
“xǐ ài” express affection
"Jing ai" mean respect and love
“yǒu ài” is affectionate love
“shēn qíng” is a deep love
“Wò ài né” is I love you
“xīn téng” is to love with all your heart
“zhōng qíng” is madly in love
“zuò ài” is to make love
“ēn ài” is the mutual love between man and wife

I wont write the other (modern) expressions....

How can anyone dislike a people that have 20 way to say "I love you."

zombiehellmonkey · Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 195

I believe that children, if you nurture them with love, they grow up into fine adults. If you respect them, and give them your time, they will return that time and respect to you when they're older.

I don't care for Chinese 'duty'... I have known Chinese friends and family, raised by wife-beating, abusive alcoholic fathers, who expect (or demand) their grown children give them love and money. Nobody has a duty to anyone, least of all to abusive parents, all actions should come from the heart. I have also known those who have learned to forgive from the goodness of their heart, but that is their choice alone to make.
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pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

Quote 'Nobody has a duty to anyone..............' unquote.

Zombiehellmonkey - I strongly disagree with you on your statement quoted above.

Our social problems today arise from this attitude.

- Parents abdicate their duty of care
- spouses abdicate their duty to each other,
- family abdicated their duty to give support to each other,
- police abdicate their duty to catch serious crimes and concentrate on lining their budgets with statistics
- teachers abdicate their duty to educate in favour of manufacturing data to verify their existence on performance tables.
- bankers abdicate their duty to be prudent with your money, to manufacture performance data to line their own pockets
- our political leaders abdicate their duty to be accountable in favour of creating a false sense of political well being to fill up their personal wealth by robbing taxpayers of limited resources.
- medical professionals abdicate their duty to cure and take care of the ill
- As individuals we abdicate our duty to care for the environment, the people around us, the society we belong to, the human race we are part off.

Therefore, zombiehellmonkey, 'We have a duty' and 'Duty' is the word and pillars of strengths for the human race to survive. Without a strong feeling and sense and more responsibility of the concept of 'Duty' we are 'NOTHING'

Yes, I agree with you that family relationships can be abusive and that children of abusive parents often do not have any emotional or moral duty to be 'filial' to their parents. However, these abused children do not have the right to abidate the 'duty' to care.

Adee · Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 47

joybetluck · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 206

Nowadays, Filial duty cannot be seen in isolation from other social policies.
Has the teachings of Kung fu zi resulted in bias in favour of boys, larger families, and laissez faire economic policies?

zombiehellmonkey · Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 195

pensggs · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 372

Love of Allah

Love of Jesus

Love of one's country

Murder in the name of love ' Crime of passion'

Love is emotional and without reasoning.

The other side of love is hate and intolerance

Everyone has only one heart and the saying 'One heart, two Love is not too much'

Zombie, love is the dessert after the main meal which is duty.

The wars, death and destruction carried out in the name of love, are happening today throughout the word. Love requires no reasoning, therefore, subject to no rules. Is it not frightening????

zombiehellmonkey · Joined: 27 Sep 2008 Posts: 195

kyu · Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 13 Location: UK & CHINA

pensggs? am very moved by your words, as you have express how i deeply feel towards being a human being(with much better english than me!). Chinese people(not all) not only have filial towards there children, parents, elderly but or so for the "dead". Last month was the "Qing ming" festival I was fortunate to have attended this festival back in China, to pay respect to my ancestors. while i was praying i couldn't stop wondering how happy they must be. Isn't that love? I believe what comes round, goes round, its nature.

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