The Case of the Briton, Akmal Shaikh - Views & Opinions?

BBC1 · Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 14

Just wondering what people's views are on the case of a British citizen, Akmal Shaikh, who has been sentenced to death by the Chinese judicial system? The guy in question is believed to be suffering from a mental illness. The international opinion is that this has not been taken in to account by the justice system in China.

The link below is a BBC new article about the case.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8432948.stm

Calls for the execution to be stopped and the case re-examined have so far not been successful. The execution is due to be carried out in the next day.

My personal opinion is that the execution should be halted. The international press / governments / general public do not have access to the evidence or case files to be able to make an truly informed opinion. The Chinese authorities should then give the opportunity for the British government or the local embassy staff to review the evidence and judge for themselves whether another appeal should be allowed. Medical assessments of the individual's mental health should be provided by several independent doctors. I firmly believe that if a justice system is to be respected it needs to be able to prove that it is fair and impartial. The general international view of China's justice system at the moment is not that great and most believe that it is a corrupt and 'unjust' system which is shrouded in secrecy.

It is in China's interests that a stay of execution is granted and that this case is thoroughly reviewed (at the most senior level / highest court of its justice system) - proof beyond reasonable doubt must be provided to the world stage. China is now operating in the international stage and must serve its duty to be a good citizen. China should not keep closed doors on important issues such as this anymore.

I believe that this case is a real test of whether China is ready to be a world leader that is going to be forward thinking and respected by the international community.

What are people's views on execution in general? I don't think that it can lifted or removed overnight (there would be mayhem and a sharp increase of certain crimes in my view). What steps should be or need to be taken to slowly phase out this old fashioned and ethically challenging form of punishment?

Medialies · Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 57

Well BBC1 its not wise to be using the BBC as your news source to start with. Propaganda seldom tells us whats actually happening in the real world.

I will start by saying i am totally against the death penalty and i think that he should have been jailed for a considerable amount of time for his crime of drug smuggling but this is international politics and its not that simple.

Most of the "international press and gov views" ie the west say that China does not care about what the world thinks and its not the way to become a future world leading player etc and most "experts" agree on this view but this is an incorrect view that misses the intention of the Chinese gov entirely. The Chinese gov is very interested in what the world thinks and thats why this execution went ahead. China is calling Britains bluff, it wants to test the reaction of the worlds "unfriendly" states ie UK & US and at the same time send out a message to the world that China marches to its own drumbeat now.

Britains bluff has been clearly called as the UK gov is going to do nothing about this execution. It will go through the motions of calling in the ambassodor and telling her how "displeased we are with this" and going infront of cameras to tell the country (for UK consumption of course, ever mindful of the upcoming election) and that will be it.

To be really effective the UK gov should do what it finally did to aparthied south africa ie an economic embargo, raise imort duties for chinese goods, or even penalise companies for doing business with China and even recall its ambassador from Beijing but of course thats not going to happen. You see, human rights are weapons that are used by certain countries to criticise designated enemy states with and to the average joe this is a fact that eludes them perfectly as they just listen to the propaganda that permeates their world without using their minds to think independently.

i think the actions of China yesterday dont show anyone in a good light, China will look like a villain infront of the world with the help of the wests pathetic excuse for journalism and Britain will be seen infront of the world as a spineless government that has very little clout in the world.

as for opening up the evidence to international inspection to show the world etc is rather insulting a notion. do we ask this of the US to open up their case evidence against inmates at guantanamo bay? do we ask the UK gov to open up their evidence when they forcefully repatriate asylum seekers back to iraq and afghanistan who have then been killed as the victims predicted?

I am no supporter of the communist gov for sure and i think its unjust that this man was executed. Gordon Brown has said he is appalled and disappointed at the execution, lets see whether this man has the conviction of his views and order a full out boycot of Chinese goods. Thats the only way to show the Chinese we are serious about human rights.

BBC1 · Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 14

I certainly do not believe everything that I read in the news - whichever source I am looking at.

With regard to China wanting to 'show' the world that it is strong and not influenced by western governments, I do not believe that they have had that effect by carrying out the execution. All that has been achieved, in my opinion, is that the rest of the world now sees the justice system in China as one that is not fair and in many ways rather arrogant.

I did note that in one of the news reports, it was stated that the sentence/conviction was passed back in 2007 - 2 years ago. Therefore, you may ask why it has taken such a long time for the family and the British government to raise this issue to the highest level. Why was medical evidence of this individual's condition not submitted much earlier for consideration?

These are all valid questions. However, as you say for the British government this was perhaps more of a propaganda or seen to be doing something exercise. The area of positive propaganda / 'marketing' is something that I believe that the Chinese government fail on miserably. As a possible example, the MP expenses scandal is nothing other than corruption in my view - they kept saying that they broke no rules but they are the ones that set the rules! This 'scandal' has been relatively well handled by the spin doctors in Westminster. Sure a few MPs may have have to resign etc but none have so far had to go to prision. My point is that western governments have learned how to use the media to their advantage where as China does not come across very well at all in the media. When you see a Chinese government official standing beside western government officials the difference is clear - I know which comes across better in my view.

Don't get me wrong. I am not an anti-China type of person but I think they (gov) certainly need to learn a lot about interacting with the rest of the world. I don't want them to be painted as the bad guys all the time.

In this particular case, I thought that it was an opportunity for China to show that it can and will engage with the rest of the world. Quite the opposite from showing a 'weakness' by delaying the execution, I believe that they could have shown that its justice system can be trusted. It would have not been that much of a big deal to delay the procedure a bit, allow both Psychologists in China and those provided by the UK to do a full assessment of the man's mental health.

The justice departments should have taken the stance that they will go out there to prove beyond doubt that the full judicial process has been thorough and fair and according to the laws of the land. This would not include a discussion on the rights and wrongs of execution as that would be a separate issue and it is a matter for the Chinese nation and its citizens as to whether such a punishment should be included in the law. They could told the world that 'China does not have to prove its judicial process to the world, but we will anyway to satisfy those who are criticising'. That would have shut people up or prevented the death of an mentally ill man. Either way I think that the general view would be that China had the strength and courage for its justice system to be proven /shown on the international stage.

There have only been losers with all involved in this international argument. No winners.

I am strongly against the death penalty myself. All life is precious and I do not think any of us have the right to end the life of another. Life imprisonment perhaps - where life actually does mean life (not 20 years or less if you behave). At least people have the opportunity to appeal or sentences corrected if new evidence or information comes to light.

My sympathies go out to the family and friends of the man that has been executed.

sunnyoyk · Joined: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 366 Location: London

Akmal Shaikh: China refers to controversial Opium Wars with Britain

Saw the above article in Daily Telegraph online and thought it might be of interest to readers in this Forum. Log onto:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6908467/Akmal-Sha ikh-China-refers-to-controversial-Opium-Wars-with-Britain.html

Adee · Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 46

Here's another good article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/dec/29/china-akmal-shaikh -execution

madammiaow · Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5 Location: London

Here's my take:
http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2009/12/china-executes-british-man-by-l ethal.html

A compassionate outcome would have been so good for so many reasons. But if the British government was serious about saving him, why get more shouty over Copenhagen as the deadline was neared? Who gains? Is the Labour govt really that stupid in thinking it could still lay down the law? Or was there another agenda?

And will they apply their own logic when it comes to extraditing Gary McKinnon to the US?

sunnyoyk · Joined: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 366 Location: London

"The emotional condemnation that followed the execution of Akmal Shaikh is exactly the wrong way to deal with the world's next superpower", says Malcolm Moore in Shanghai.

Saw the above article entitled 'China - handle with care' in the Telegraph online and thought it might be of interest to readers in this Forum. Log onto:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6929713/China---h andle-with-care.html

Edwina Lee · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 1281 Location: High Wycombe, UK

The problem with this case as I see it now is that if the defendent is let off, then the deterence to narcotics traffickers is instantly diminished, and a loop hole opens up.

Can the defendant's witnesses who are relatives & friends possibly prove that Akmel was mentally ill before the trafficking? Even if Akmel is assessed by experts that he is mentally ill, it still does not prove that he was mentally ill before.

Furthermore, after the COP15 Copenhagen Climate Summit, the possibility of political conspiracy in the west must now hang heavy on the motivations behind international politics.

Edwina Lee · Joined: 06 Oct 2006 Posts: 1281 Location: High Wycombe, UK

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