Cultural Identity, Racism & Mixed Race Relationships

sarahmoon · Joined: 10 Sep 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Bath

I know this is kinda like posting 3 topics into one but I just wanted to hear everyone's opinions on the matter(s), as the 3 has been closely intertwined in my life.

Cultural Identity- Being of mixed parentage, I grew up with a fusion of Beijing Chinese culture (from my mum), and British English culture (from my dad). However in terms of relationships, I have mostly gone out with British guys. This is simply due to the fact that I have met more of them at university.

One of the main barriers to my relationships is that my white boyfriends find the topic of racism very difficult to discuss. Sometimes they even claim that racism does not exist and that it is all in my head!

My question is: Can white British boyfriends really truly understand the deep impact that racism can have on the lives of their ethnic minority girlfriends, (be it direct or indirect racism)?

What has other people's experiences of mixed-race relationships been like?

Sarah (university student)[/color]
_________________
Life is like a bath, we must all paddle in the pool of life.

paul · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject:

The first yes vote was me.
I have had a couple of malay chinese girlfriends. They didn't work out in the long term but we remain friends and have no regrets.
Either one could have been the right one and I would have no problem in having a wife of another race.
Don't care about the skin colour - it's the person that matters.

paul · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:

Thinking a little deeper about the racist point.
It can be hard for a white anglo saxon male to see the effects of racism - we don't see much of it.
I have only been on the end of it once and in such a minor way it can't compare with what i see every day in take aways.
Still it did make me feel bad and so gave me an insight into what it must be like to be on the end of it long term.
I do have a close (asexual) relationship with one malay chinese girl. I know she has some nasty customers to deal with and I know it upsets her. It makes me sad to know that there is little I can do to help her and that there are people out there who treat such a kind hearted girl so badly.

GweiLo · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 149

paul · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:07 am Post subject:

Hi GweiLo,
We think so alike we could be brothers. I have not been quite as close to direct racism as you but I do see it's effects on those dear to me and it pains me to think of the hurt that it brings.
I always find it hard to understand why someone would want to be nasty to another for no reason other than that they can.
Hope all is well for you and your family.
Cheers
paul

Phil · Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 15

To all

Hi, just some background, I'm 27 year old chinese doctor working in London, and I have been going out with a white girl for the last 8 months
I love girls, chinese, white , indian, or european girls but inter - relational racism happens both ways. Twice I was outnumbered and beaten by a gang of white guys purely because I was going out with a white English girl. I didn't let that stop me though because she was so kind, sweet, and of course good looking, and now we're planning to get engaged this month!. Being a cardiologist Doctor, I met her when she was a drug rep in a hotel dinner, and I had enough courage to write her a short poem and grab her for a date!. She makes me feel like the luckiest guy in the world. (She's blonde long hair got the cutest nose, sweetest lips and the most brilliant blue eyes,thin AND TALLER than me, and I'm 5"10! ) oh and yeah she has the Sexiest long legs ( She won't mind me commenting on that!). But the things I love about her the most is her warmth, fairness, kindness and humour. ( Don't want you to think I'm shallow! : ) ). To be honest she could have any guy she wants and I have absolutely no idea why she picked me. It's only 8 months but I love her so much, and I know she's the one!

Anyway, getting back to the topic, in my past, I have been out with about 4 - 5 chinese girls ( my own race ) but have found unfortunately that these have been really negative experiences on the whole. Even though most have been quite average looking, the ones I've gone out with have had some kind of superiority complex whereby they have hang ups about chinese guys being just gamblers who abuse women or treat them badly. I never understood it as I've always been brought up to treat women with respect, and have romanced them treated them well with flowers, dinner etc. etc, but after the first month of dating their superiority complex kicks in, and they have some weird stereotype in their head about chinese men.

About Dantart's post on this board saying that whenever she walks through chinatown with her white boyfriend, she hates getting the evil eye from chinese guys - I would rather have THAT situation than INSTEAD going down my highstreet with my "white" girlfriend, getting the "evil eye" from white guys AND THEN GETTING THE **** KICKED OUT OF ME BY FIVE COWARDLY WHITE GUYS who hate me sleeping with someone of their race, WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME!!!!!!. YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT MIXED RELATIONSHIP RACISM. I WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. Whilst I walked past a gang of five white guys with my girlfriend they began to follow us and taunt us with names like "CHINKY" AND "F*****G B**CH CHINKY - LOVER". Then one of them ran up to my girlfriend and spat on her, I grabbed the little git and pulled him to the floor and punched him and kicked the C**P out of him and then his other four friends decided they would do the reverse back to me. Whilst I was on the floor they spat on Ellen whilst she was trying to help me up and just left us there.

My attitude is s**t happens, but unlike dantart I'm intelligent to realize that not all white guys are like this. - I don't tar people with the same brush.

I think there is a MINORITY of chinese girls who hold racist stereotypes of chinese guys, and I think that has been a large barrier to my relationships with the ones I've been out with. Still, i have to say I still have lots of chinese girls as friends, in fact my best friend is a petite chinese girl and got a great sense of humour and kind too and she's not at all like this, so I have to be careful about not tarring all chinese girls with the same brush. I realize that the ones I went out with are probably the WORST of the lot and I have just probably really unlucky in the draw. SO I HAVE TO MAKE THIS CLEAR THAT I AM NOT ANTI - CHINESE AND NOT ANTI - WHITE as my girlfriend is the most beautiful English Rose, and I also have lots of chinese and white friends, to prove that I have a balanced view.

Unfortunately you can tell who this minority of racist chinese girls tend to be, - it's the girls who have gone out with white guys who have treated me the worst, someone please tell me why this is?????????

Unfortunately also, it's these same EX -chinese girlfriends who ph0ne me ( Crying on the ph0ne, YES CRYING!!! )several months/ years later after we've broken up.

They only tend to want to speak to me, after their affair with a married white guy has not worked out, because the white guy will not leave partner/ wife for the chinese girl that they only wanted sex with. Or my EX - Chinese girlfriend has been going steady with a white guy since they broke up with me, and now realizes their white boyfriend has been cheating on her with other white / chinese women for the last TEN MONTHS, WITHOUT THEM HAVING AN INKLING OR BEING AWARE OF IT!!!!!! (HOW THE **** CAN THIS HAPPEN?, SOMEONE TELL ME?). On one hand I want to tell them to **** OFF for treating me so badly when we were going out, - on the other hand I'm a nice guy so IN MY STUPIDITY I end up spending 2 hrs on the ph0ne hyping up their big but damaged ego's or I end up going around there to comfort them + give them advice in their teary, distressed state because at this time, they have already jacked in their jobs because they are feeling so depressed, and are alone with no money and nowhere else to go. It gets to the point whereby my caucasian GF thinks I'm some kind of naive sucker who lets himself be used. ( She says that as jokingly as poss of course!)

I have to say my GF, Ellen reads these posts and she laughs because she can see that alot of the chinese girls seem to have posts which are so blatantly stereotyping chinese guys. She laughs and tells me "wow these chinese girls must really hate you!" : ), Of course I just tell her to F*** OFF in with as much tongue and cheek as possible, - but then she puts her arm around me and tells me " either that, or these Chinese girls are just stupid B***ches, and that's just the luckier for me!" and then she put both arms around me and gave me the warmest kiss. (And that's why I love her - sigh! ). (She has the weirdest tongue in cheek sense of humour and filthiest mouth though : P : ) :D :wink:

Anyway the point is it's time for chinese guys and gals and white guys and girls to stop slagging each other off because there are always a bad minority in each and that minority should not mould your view UNFAIRLY of the majority.

Just to add a note, I read another post on the chinese girl who goes out with White guys who deny racism exists, it read the following:-

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
From sarahmoon

Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Bath
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: Cultural Identity, Racism & Mixed Race Relationships

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

I know this is kinda like posting 3 topics into one but I just wanted to hear everyone's opinions on the matter(s), as the 3 has been closely intertwined in my life.

Cultural Identity- Being of mixed parentage, I grew up with a fusion of Beijing Chinese culture (from my mum), and British English culture (from my dad). However in terms of relationships, I have mostly gone out with British guys. This is simply due to the fact that I have met more of them at university.

One of the main barriers to my relationships is that my white boyfriends find the topic of racism very difficult to discuss. Sometimes they even claim that racism does not exist and that it is all in my head!

My question is: Can white British boyfriends really truly understand the deep impact that racism can have on the lives of their ethnic minority girlfriends, (be it direct or indirect racism)?

What has other people's experiences of mixed-race relationships been like?

Sarah (university student)[/color]
_________________
Life is like a bath, we must all paddle in the pool of life.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>PHIL'S (MY) reply is:-

I feel sorry for you because racism is something even my gf can see in it's ugliest form even though she is English. I am lucky enough to have a white girl who is courageous enough to condemn her own race for it, even when at times the racist comments are coming from her own nearest, dearest and most loved relatives.

Hope you can meet another guy who is courageous enough to speak up for you - This is what I feel would be the first an one of the most important duties if I were in the position of your boyfriend.

Till next time all.
Yours sincerely

Philly Phil-o :)

paul · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:59 am Post subject:

I have, as I said before had chinese (malaysian) girlfriends and found no reaction from white people except a few wishing they were me. I do get many questions from friends as to how I know so many chinese girls and they want introductions. Their only interest is sex, so they get nothing.
I am very lucky, I have been out with a few chinese girls and have been intimate with a few. We have split up on good terms and are still in contact.
I also have many friends who happen to be female and chinese.
I do see when we are out in a chinese area bad looks from other chinese, usually males.
They assume we are BF/GF and the look in their eyes say they don't lke it.
I also have a close relationship with a young chinese girl. When I visit London I meet her in Chinatown but we have been seen together so much, often with her boyfriend, that no one bothers us.
She's such a cute kid I don't think anyone could thing bad of her.
As for chinese girls going out with married white men, what do they expect ?
The race is a side issue, married men who do this almost always stay with their wives.
I am sorry you have had problems with racist bullies. I hate the stupidity that they show and hate what people like this could do to those I care about.

I am also a naive sucker, I hate to see a girl in trouble and go to a lot of trouble to help them out. That's half the reason I ended up meeting so many chinese girls. I rescuded a couple when they were in real trouble. The first had been tossed out of her home with almost no notice when the boss closed down the shop.
Still that's a side issue. I hope your relationship goes well and that the racist leave you alone but I do suggest you avoid fighting when you have no chance of winning.
That's basic tactics.

As a final note it's better not to post the same thing several times. Better to delete the others.

candide · Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 8

Personally, I would find it very difficult to be in a relationship with someone white who 1) does not understand too much about being Chinese/minority 2) who believes racism is all in our heads.

I was in a 3 year relationship with someone white and fortunately she was very open-minded and empathetic. These things are at the core of our identity and I need my partner to recognise and empathise with it.

candide · Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 8

Personally, I would find it very difficult to be in a relationship with someone white who 1) does not understand too much about being Chinese/minority 2) who believes racism is all in our heads.

I was in a 3 year relationship with someone white and fortunately she was very open-minded and empathetic. These things are at the core of our identity and I need my partner to recognise and empathise with it.

paul · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:

candide - I can understand what you are saying. Many of my friends want chinese girlfriends but only to say they had had sex with them. There interest is nothing more than wanting to know if the srereotypes are true.
I would never introduce chinese girls I know to them. It has been a long journey to gain trust from these people as so many english guys are, well, as they are.
As you have found out many of us are more than sex crazed drunks, I feel very lucky to have been out with so many nice girls both as friends and a few as girlfriends.
Even more so that the old girlfriends have remained friends even when the relationship didn't work out.
If I ever get married I have no idea what race she may be from but I have met so many nice chinese girls from various parts of the world I would have no problem with sharing my life with a chinese girl and giving her the love and respect any man should show his wife.

Phil · Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 15

Paul I know you are white guy and it's difficult to speak against your race, but thank you for being so honest, I often also get white "associates", who also try to get me to introduce them to chinese girls, and the often specify on an age, and go into all kinds of perverted talk and they think I will take it as if I am stupid enough to do that for them.

Fortunately the few TRUE white male friends I do have don't ask such stupid questions and act so stupidly.

But I do understand the kind of guys you mean and very often they are really full of themselves. It's a real shame because alot of chinese girls really fall for them but have been hurt by them and very often these chinese girls are the most insecure ones, because they are young, just starting out in life, and haven't gained much experience of life yet. Very often when they lose their white boyfriend they've got nowhere else to go or just temping in some crappy job.

I know one girl who was quite, well actually very westernized chinese girl, sister of a girl / friend I was at school with, so much so that she used to tell me she only wanted to go out with white guys. So over a period, she got dumped by a couple of real scumbags, from year to year, who didn't treat her too well. Now she's getting to an age nearly whereby she's really getting through childbearing age and she can't find anyone who wants her for her age, I think it really hurts to see all her other friends getting married. I really wish she did manage to find white guy who would marry her but the previous scumbags took away her youthful years - the time whereby she would have had the best chance of getting a husband/ partner who was half - decent.

On the other hand I do know a few white guys who treat their girlfriends well and are quite responsible, but for some reason most chinese girls I know don't end up with even these responsible white guys, for some reason they end up in the arms of the sleaziest, sleazy, two - faced, lying, scummy white guys, I never ever figured out why. It's weird cos' half the time everyone can see how sleazy the guy is but the girl can't. Like she's gone blind in a second or something.

Guest · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject:

What a topical topic this is! Something sure to get the people talking :)

From my personal perspective (Irish chappie, living in England, one year in Japan), I can say that I have found some things to be true:
- Lots of Western Europe chaps like Asian women (ranging from India through to Japan).
- Lots of men from all over the world are only looking for sex.
- You can build a good relationship with anyone if you have real respect and care for them as a person.

In Japan it was occasionally upsetting to see how many fellow teachers were sleeping around like there was no tomorrow. We (foreign teachers) were given a rather rotten and often deserved reputation because of this. In the UK, I have seen a little of the same, but by the same token I have many people of both genders from all races treat each other badly. I have a sneaking suspicion it really comes down to individual personality and morals.

A lot of this is about how you seek a partner I guess. If you look for someone "cool" or whatever (insert your favourite random attribute here), then you're going to meet a lot of duds. If you understand in your heart what your needs and your wants are, then you will be selective in a way that is more likely to reward you.

It's certainly nice to have a partner to share life with. That closeness is a feeling that is endlessly special regardless of race, culture or creed.

paul · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject:

christian · Joined: 19 Nov 2005 Posts: 1

I'm scottish guy in london 28 and lived out in Singapore and then Hong Kong working as a banker for 3 years. When I was working out there I became more interested in singaporean women probably because there were no / fewer white women to date. I think one of the reasons white guys like chinese women is because they think they are usually submissive and low maintenance. ( which I think is generally true, )

Let's be honest I'm hardly one of the best looking guys of my age but let's face it, it's hardly a challenge getting them to sleep with you. I slept around loads during my time in singapore. I only had two proper relationships when I was out there, of which you could call a boyfriend/girlfriend type of relationship. They didn't work out because the girls thought I was leading them on, and I was in a way I guess, because I was never really interested at all for the long term. They started to get more and more demanding and bitchy after the first date. I had the feeling they were after my money and marriage.

When I got home to the UK I started going out with another chinese girl, I thought she was fun at first and dated her for 7 months. I tended to get a bit miffed though when they start turning on that emotional c rap and crying, and saying how much I had hurt her and all that rubbish. It's true that I had started seeing someone else at work but when I broke it off with her It got really nasty. First she began playing the submissive little "hurt" animal and began stalking/ phoning my parents to ask me where I was and to tell them what a bad guy I was for cheating on her. Then later on I had the pleasure of her threatening to harm herself ( Empty, but nevertheless disturbing threats). And then finally I had the pleasure of her coming round smashing the security lights outside my flat and making a big disturbance outside when I wouldn't let her in.

Now this is just to illustrate one point to everyone who has written on this thread above - I might have been playing the field a bit but don't you think that the blame is shared somewhat. In alot of relationships I've just wanted sex but how can you put all the blame on guys like me? don't you think that chinese girls are grown up enough to take rejection and hold up responsibility for being brainless enough to want to jump into bed with white guys like me?

At the beginning I thought that submissive facade was kinda cute until I realized she was something from fatal attraction underneath it. Someone above said that chinese girls are insecure, it's true I was certainly the victim of all that emotional baggage!

Stop blaming the white guys!!!!! I'm honest, in every relationship I've had, I get sex but I also offer the girls alot of excitement outside of their boring, empty and desperate lives. We each get something! Get Real the sadcases who wrote the last few posts.

I probably won't date anymore chinese girls from now but in a few years I'd probably go back to singapore or hong kong to visit. I had a great time there.

Lunar · Joined: 02 Dec 2005 Posts: 8

Christian,

You're a bastard :)

Going out with someone who is mentally unhinged doesn't quite qualify as a race relationship issue. And it's not her..

Don't forget your tablets next time.

[quoteI I get sex but I also offer the girls alot of excitement outside of their boring, empty and desperate lives. [/quote]

Oh the eccentric selfishness. You get sex. They get your syphillis. Looks like sex fills the boring empty desperate live you lead - behind the pseudonym.

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