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Are the Chinese stereotyped on British TV? PDF Print E-mail
Viewpoints
Tuesday, 10 August 2010

As I wind down after another weekend of relaxation and recreation, I’m looking forward to this weeks episode of Sherlock Holmes. Brilliant dialogue, quite faithful to the original (I loved the way that modern Holmes deduces Watson is an Afghanistan veteran, almost exactly like the original), even if the plots are a little thin.
 
However, what struck me, about last weeks episode (The Blind Banker) was the villains were Chinese smugglers. Why is this a problem, you may ask? In itself it isn’t, and I must admit I’d given it no thought myself previously, but during the General Election a group of Chinese actors had asked for more pressure to have meatier Chinese roles on TV or even the theatre. Not stereotypes.
 
Is the problem that bad? Well the next day after Sherlock Holmes, the current BBC Radio 5 Live advert for the new football season was on, and the Chinese character was a take away owner, celebrating in his shop. It makes you realise that actually almost all Chinese characters on British TV are:
 
·        An illegal immigrant
·        Linked to the criminal underworld
·        Or a take away owner.
 
This despite the evidence that Chinese students in the UK are amongst the highest achieving academic group, many working Chinese are doctors, lawyers (not to stereotype here either), as well as bankers, IT experts, fashion designers, teachers, graphic designers basically any job you can think of that exists. Yet there is none of this on British TV.
 
US TV, although not perfect, has been ahead of the game and much more reflective of its society. I’m not sure why this is, but Star Trek (multiple series), Qunicy, Grey’s Anatomy, Lost and Heroes at least have more mainstream Oriental characters than we see in the UK productions. There are more oriental TV presenters now with Gok Wan and Alexa Chung, but roles for actors, no. 
 
What is the solution? Legislation or education? I’m not sure there is a simple answer, but I’d like to think that casting directors or scriptwriters aren’t deliberately ignoring the Chinese community, but more interaction with them and producers could do a lot to change how the Chinese are represented on British TV.
 
Maybe a place to start could be the BBC, which actually has a public remit. If it’s being reviewed for value for money and what it should deliver, then let’s review it properly and ensure its representative of the UK population in its production values.

Philip Ling

Article reprinted from Philip Ling’s blog
http://philling.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/are-the-chinese-stereotyped-on-british-tv/
 
 
About Philip:
Philip Ling is the Lib Dem’s parliamentary candidate for Bromsgrove in the 2010 UK General elections.
 
Born in Leamington Spa, he was brought up in Warwick, before studying Economics at the University of Bath. As part of the course he spent a year working as an Assistant Economist at the Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit. After graduation he was Commercial/Pricing Manager for a telecommunications company before joining a retail bank in 2007, working as an analyst on current accounts, just as the credit crunch emerged. 

Philip with wife Vicky

 
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Anna Chen - Sinophobia in the media Posted 15:57 on 10 August 2010
Good one, Philip. I've been fighting this at my blog, Madam Miaow.

First of all, listen to the BBC Radio 4 programme: Fu Manchu In Edinburgh, available on iPlayer until the weekend:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rt91z

I've written my response at my blog. Please do add your comments:
http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2010/08/bbc-jumps-racist-shark-fu-manchu-in.html

Plus a review of Sherlock, The Blind Banker episode. I've had a great response, along with social networking sites such as Twitter where many are asking the same questions about why we're seeing this renewed Yellow Peril scare:
http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2010/08/sherlock-and-wily-orientals-bbc-stuck.html

But if you don't complain, they won't hear you. BBC complaint form here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/forms/
mello yello fello Posted 3:24 on 20 August 2010
With all said and stats presented again folks can we stop kidding yourselves /Ourselves Chinese may perhaps still be the highest population in the world (if not taken over by india).Yet are more infamously but yet seriuously derogatively labeled and renound for not being in front of the camera but rather bhnind the "back door of the Studio" - selling DVD'S - dodgy copies to that!!Let's face it the work hard ethos does serve to a degree and is healthy but,we are percieved as low-life and spineless.I was once privy to hear of a conversation regarding a TV channel's ethnic writers commitee (No chinese )when it was posed to them regarding the lack of "South asian!!??"(thats chinese?)representation is was said "don;t worry we could just change the cast keep the story but put chinese in it!!??
I think we need to all revist our school days as it boils down to playground politics - the bully will keep on taking wants yours until you make a stand.This is transferable in all walks of our lives and stop kowtowing strange how that word got in the old oxford- again perhaps it is too commonly been witnessed.
BTW - I believe that the greatness exists in ALL races.
mello yello fello Posted 3:27 on 20 August 2010
Sorry for my spelling - I know I should proof read before submitting!!
Honestly, " I do spek goot englit".
Anna Chen - Sinophobia at the BBC - with l Posted 16:00 on 10 August 2010
Good one, Philip. I've been fighting this at my blog, Madam Miaow.

First of all, listen to the BBC Radio 4 programme: Fu Manchu In Edinburgh, available on iPlayer until the weekend:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rt91z

I've written my response at my blog. Please do add your comments:
http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2010/08/bbc-jumps-racist-shark-fu-manchu-in.html

Plus a review of Sherlock, The Blind Banker episode. I've had a great response, along with social networking sites such as Twitter where many are asking the same questions about why we're seeing this renewed Yellow Peril scare:
http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2010/08/sherlock-and-wily-orientals-bbc-stuck.html

But if you don't complain, they won't hear you. BBC complaint form here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/for

Sorry for repost - forgot links in first.
S - Sinophobia, really? Posted 1:03 on 11 August 2010
I'm sorry but this post is just waaay too PC. I am a BBC so I cant be described as being racist. But you're describing a world where noone can make a comment without being harressed.

Surely other ethic groups are stereotyped one way or another. These are not calling out for an outright attac on orients. Are british people not stereo typed for being white and posh (I'm sure Hollywood always makes the english guy the baddy)? Are Russians not sterotyped for being gansters? Are indians not stereotyped for owning cornershops?

I say suck it in and get on with life. If you are a real politian go campaign for real values
Reply to S Posted 1:45 on 13 August 2010
S - I'm not saying that other groups are not stereotyped, if you read the article carefully I said that it wasn't something I thought about. But real actors are asking why they don't have decent roles to apply for. It also has an impact on how the mass population view certain cultures. I'm sure it's exactly the same for other cultures, but slowly but surely there are black and indian roles that are not stereotypes, is that the case with Chinese roles?
Karate yid Posted 19:23 on 13 August 2010
...well I am also a "BBC" and I disagree with S comments and reductive attitude. People should give a bit more respect to people like the writer and Anna. As I understand it, in their own way are trying stand up for some relevant BBC issues. Being represented "positively" has a huge impact in the way "others" perceive "us". I still get the occasional insults by people acting out mocking kung fu gestures behind my back because thats what they see in the media. It offends some people and not others. Also Chinese people can themselves stereotype themselves by being indifferent and apathetic to real incidents of racism, hence it makes "us" a easy target because they can get away with it.
Mello Yello fello - The King's New Clothes..! Posted 21:28 on 13 August 2010
I agree with you PL. but I only hope you really got the balls to defend it and not just be a wimpy mouth organ- since you have some clout??(response pls.)
FACT- Oriental people are misrepresented and under represented in the media.
i.e. Gok wan ,Alexa Chung are both half chinese so that equals One chinese!!??Can we now stop kidding ourselves ,please and stop being in denial !!
Why is it important ? (Explaination in very basic terms)A human being should have the right to "BE RESPECTED" and live in "PEACE" .However,intentionally and or unintentionally we are betrayed in a lesser light.In terms of symbolism and imagery..Try drawing a Swasitka and walk round with it stuck on your big round yellow head...or even a Star of David ..I'm sure you will get a response.Point is you can't change the skin you are in because you may think you are westernised (in chinese culture this is equated to intelligience and success- but you are infact Kowtowing to the people who possess these cultural traits) you will never be accepted until you take responsibilty of how your culture group is percieved - Asians and Blacks have done exceptionally well over the past 20 yrs making a pleasant viewing seeing many of their faces on TV and screen - they have even managed to anchor there own TV series as well.

I want to see some action and redy to sign up - what do you propose PL - let's not sit on the fence?
S Posted 0:40 on 16 August 2010
Mello Yello fello and PL- Asians and blacks have a bigger representation in media because they make up a bigger percentage of the UK population. Orientals account for less than 1% of the uk population which is probably why there is a skew effect on how many there are on tv (which also is a response to the last line in the article about being representive in the bbc world).

And to Karate yid- being represented in a postive way makes zero difference. You could explain the genetics why chinese's people eyes are a different shape. I dont think it will stop people from pulling slanted eyes. I think that also covers PL's suggestion of education.

Legislation - I agree with Dan Bull's comment on PL's blog. It will be a hinderance and not neccessary.

Oh and to Karate yid's last comment (which ties to the point above): Chinese aren't an easy target for racism. Everyone is. Don't get me wrong racism isn't right. But I believe success is a difficult measure, the great thing is chinese people are doing well for themselves overall and that's what really matters. I do agree with MYF that everyone has the right to be respected, but I also think that respect needs to be earnt its not something easily given.
Anonymous Posted 0:47 on 17 August 2010
After thinking over what I wrote at such a late hour yesterday, I thought I would condense my point in a simpler term and cover a point or two I missed (altho I stand by what I wrote above).

If the overall point of this post is how can we reduce/stop racism towards orientals, then competing for airtime on tv is not the way to go. It's about teaching tolerance to one another and respect in seeing beyond the skin colour (not only to chinese but to all).

If (as PL puts it) chinese actors wanting decent roles, well all I can say is that hard work dedication of the individual is the way to go if you want to succeed(and not quotas of how many chinese people should be in a tv drama).
zhao - brilliant Posted 13:46 on 17 August 2010
brilliant phil - what a nice bit of promotion!

take the bbc's very popular eastenders. what did the only person on popular british tv do? she was a pirate dvd seller, even though she was second-generation chinese (pardon me if i'm wrong as i don't follow eastenders closely, but her accent would suggest she's no fresh-arrival).

interestingly, i heard that one of the major problems facing chinese restaurant owners is that their kids don't want to take over their parents' role.

also, interestingly, i read in the newspapers that chinese are the most likely to encounter racist remarks in the workplace (jokes included).

when i was young, i did not notice these things. when i grew older, i thought it'd change. now, i don't think will, not for decades. and am i bothered about british society etc? sometimes i feel i've stopped caring. one day, i'll get that one way flight ticket and say goodbye to england.

i'll continue to read dimsum, however, especially when the likes of phil has written, when i'm back in the warm embrace of the motherland where no one would see me as foreign and question if i sell private dvds.

i'll probably set up a pie shop or something, selling the "best" of the british...

pip pip
Jeremy - Its the same in the US too Posted 11:25 on 27 September 2010
In all actuality, it IS getting better in the US, but there is a HUGE gap in the roles that asian people get there too. Shows like Lost and Grey's Anatomy help, but it is so rare to see an asian character on TV and not have it be a stereotype. Its a little humiliating, so still most people that want to see Asians on tv shows just watch Japanese, Taiwanese, or Korean shows online.

I also think that in the states too, Chinese are one of the groups that get the most jokes and ridicule in the workplace. The things I've heard used to make me so depressed.
Anonymous - great sleep forward Posted 22:21 on 17 August 2010
I enjoyed reading this piece and the varied comments below, but disagree with some of the more reductionist comments, whether you became a target of racism which fortunately most I hope think its wrong, depends on one's power and resources to protect themselves. I m from the school of thought that believes powerful media representations can make a difference in shaping attitudes as cultural history has shown as, sadly not all for the "positive".
If you think you are doing fine, great, end of; but if you don't you suffer and may need support by other chinese people of the same or similar situation and that is the point, it is only when things don't feel right we worry and want something to be done to change things.
Don't know about you, but in most cases I would if I can, lend a supporting hand a person in need or good "moral" causes.
SS - Be the change you want to see Posted 0:57 on 18 August 2010
We have the power in our own hands. Look back in the day when there were not many brown people on television. Comedy shows like Goodness Gracious Me came out, brought awareness and popularity. Since then they (the cast) have used the success to go onto other things in media (writing books, scripts, movies, appearances in Eastenders etc.)

If you want Chinese/ Oriental people in the media, you need to urge them to get into the profession and make the most of the opportunities they are presented.

I am a numbers person, so if we take the comment above that less than 1% of the population are oriental. How many actors does that equate to? Of those actors, how many are good?

I believe if you are good at what you do, you will be successful. Bruce Lee was a prime example. Started off in small roles, then became a major superstar. Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Daniel Dae Kim, Yunjin Kim, John Cho, Stephan Chow are others to name a few from the top of my head!

Just to finish off I will simply say, for the time being Chinese should take the roles which are given, then be fussy after they have earned the right to refuse roles. Only after there is interest in the Chinese will the likes of Eastenders bring them into the cast, and so people need to start writing scripts, producing shows etc. If you want a change, make it happen.
Anonymous - response Posted 21:31 on 19 August 2010
No "we" don't have all the power in our own hands (maybe if you re of someone of great wealth and influence), if you got no wealth or contacts you're stuffed. You have to alomost impossible workload to achieve high level success. the otherside of the story which just as IMPORTANT is that there majority of people who losers and unsuccessful people in life chinese or not.
The key question is it meritocratic? I say in alot of cases NO... For example if there is a choice between a white person and a chinese people who should get more votes? the moral answer SHOULD be doesn't matter. But all BBCs or chinese, know its not like that. I can't stand those who have a unrealistic existential attitude because it doesn't match with the reality.
S Posted 7:56 on 20 August 2010
Ha.... and I've been labelled with reductionist view (I'm guessing here given that apart from SS, had the alternative view here).

It's an attitude like Anonymous above than probably shows why orientals feel stuffed. You make your dream your reality or at least give it your best shot. I canno stand people who make crappy excuses when it goes down the pan like its cos I'm chinese and don't say well I didn't try hard enough I will next time. If you think you're a loser, you will always be one.

I have a good job that pay wells and I'm only in my early 20s all from working at it as best as I can. I'm not very academic nor do I have contacts or wealthy. I've done pretty everything myself and it's gotten recongised. I can't anything for anyone else here since I don't know their story.

and to your answer qu; I think you should rephrase that last part as colour shouldn't matter, but their attitude, values and personailty do. I agreed with SS point which is basically taking a white person thats good rather than 10 rubbish chinese actors.
MELLOYELLOFELLO Posted 17:14 on 20 August 2010
There comes a point when an individual's being is like a "drop in an ocean" and it is almost as though it makes no difference to the world-be they percieved in their own head as successful or notso.There is a need for a concerted Communial effort.The community on a mass whole ,is in a "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing" scenario. We are totally disunified,splinterred,fragmented.

I guarantee as sucessful as we may all like to percieve we are, if we just sit for a few minutes alone and reflect honestly to onesleves one you will have to admit that he the Oriental male would not get the equal respect of his peers of other races.(stuff hasn't changed much -read the Bruce lee's bio- on how he tried so hard to be accepted)

I have lived in UK-Cosmopolitan London for years amongst people of varying backgrounds and creeds and have shared very intimate sitting's and frank conversations with many close friends and associates on race and religion and been into far as the Middle East.

Who are we kidding!!? This is not me being a defeatist or negative and nor is there a swarmy,self-gloating philosophy to my hand -just the bare facts.

Perception of us needs to change - we have to do it.We have lost the meaning of love for oneselves.A general example, is when we see another Oriental we divorce ourselves from that connection ,when infact they are a mirror to you to a lesser or greater degree.

Again , I must stress all races have greatness - we sadly have lost our mojo- indeed China was great(past tense.)However,back to the orignal subject matter and after a long,long, long digression -what better than the MEDIA being the place to change the perception of us and I do frankly,think that it is extremely hard to break into and yes it is, by design and intent through proxy - so we got to fight with all might and intents to really change the negative perceptions or we will be censored,silenced,ignored and a classified group of impotents bearing no fruit.

Finally ,I must add that I mean not to upset or offend but only to shake the foundations within the human being so that in one can reflect,consolidate and be fully charged to make that extraordinary difference.

Food for thought, today there is a Black President in the USA; yet in the 50's with race riots and the horrendous attrocites being aflicted upon Afro-Americans it was unconcieveable that it could ever be so.Also,today they have a weighty bidding in the entertainment industry and have mass appeal.Well done to them - God is great!!
S Posted 18:52 on 20 August 2010
Mello Yello fello- I agree with most of the statements you have made on the individual sense of success. And also you are right that there have been a digresstion.

I still diagree that chinese are percieved in a negative way (in a general sense rather than focusing on media content). Tbh I hardly even watch tv given that content today is pretty crap overall (I wonder why I own a tv sometimes). However, even when you see stats on performance, orientals/asians rate highly, where those from african and even white background do not...all of which are facts that people are well aware of. I don't think as an example giving black people main roles has changed people's perception of them. Nor has giving muslim people a focus on tv (educating others) has benefited then either.

Anyway my original point (sorry i tend to not explain myself well) is that given Philipe is an MP, there are far better issues to focus on.
Chinaman Posted 18:32 on 20 August 2010
::peers head over parapet, looks for wumao & fascists::

a) arguments about representations are reductive - end of the day we need to create our own works both breaking stereotypes and subverting them. art from the chinese countries will not help us reach an identity as a diaspora.
b) our own works is not the be all and end all of racism in the UK, or a British Chinese "scene" will develop, pat itself on the back, turn shit, sell out and its celebs become tabloid fodder in 30 years time - see hip hop
c) stereotypes that affect new migrants affect BBC, no one can disown their own race, we are all equally chinese no matter how much you wanna shout about it from the roof tops or how utterly dismissive of it

::ducks back in trenches::
M.Y.F. - The King's new clothes. Posted 2:33 on 21 August 2010
Interesting points Chinaman but why duck back into the trenches - why be afraid? where does fascism come into it.It is fortunate that we live in a society that can publicly celebrate Black History Month,Dawali,Ramadan,chinese New year to mention a few- so why mention facism when we are trying to rediscover the Value of our god given Orientalness - should we be criminalised for this?

There is no answer to racism but we are obligated to tackle prejudice.Let's put this right into perspective-If someone was slandering you at work or even demonising you as a professional(taking away your pureness and bringing doubt on your credibilty and integrity)I'm sure you would and should - set the record straight because collegues will start believing stuff - you can get done for slander you know!!?.another thing,I read from some of Madam Miaows links (see prev. postings)and she point's out some very good examples in her writes -very cleverly hitting the nail on the head.

So back to the orig. matter at hand,at the end of the day any person professing to be a representative of society is as good as their supporters.Our Socio-eco affairs must be addressed holistically from the individual and collectively what ever this encompasses.

BTW. Congrats PL on your Membership but the ceiling is only so high and it is Glass.Therefore,if you are claiming to represent Chinese - I am looking forward to support you and to see you jump extremely high - just don't be kept bowed down.

Best wishes to all - have a lovely Weekend and live life to the full.
rchan - why just blame 'them' Posted 5:00 on 23 August 2010
I believe that Chinese culture in the UK isn't really inducive to people being visible individuals in the media. Yes, there are many Chinese doctors/lawyers/accountants/lecturers etc (which in itself is becoming a stereotype) but popular perception relies alot on media influence.

I don't think the broadcasters/writers etc should be blamed for the lack of representation or misrepresentation when we do appear. From what I've seen of Chinese/East Asian actors on British TV from Sherlock Holmes to The Bill none of them have struck me as being particularly memorable or outstanding. I understand non-lead roles mean less dialogue and screen time but even then its an opportunity to shine and many of these actors I've come across lack stage presence.

The Chinese community have talent as can be seen in films and tv across the world (from the US/China/Taiwan etc) but maybe UK television isn't able to attract that kind of talent because it doesn't have the same pull as other countries (e.g. actors/singers from US often go back to Hong Kong or Taiwan to launch their careers). Also from personal experience I have seen talented people chose to develop other careers such as in law despite having an interest in acting or popular music. Like previous posters touched on, the idea that writers would consider using a 'Chinese face' for any acting role just for the sake of representation is just plain wrong! There clearly isn't enough understanding by writers of the nuances of how Chinese culture can subtly influence a character of Chinese heritage. This is partly because many writers probably don't interact as much with Chinese people. But on a more daring note - maybe because alot of the Chinese who were born and brought up in the UK are very out of touch with their roots and white-washed to the point their only connection is a few soundbites of odd sounding chinese and appreciation of Chinese food. Think about that.
anon2 - thoughts Posted 17:35 on 24 August 2010
I think its also a reflection of the audience which is over 99.5% not chinese in the UK. There are numerous of superb films by oriental actors in S.E ASIA, likes of S.Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, China for example, who are regular Cannes accolades and certainly not ignored by cultural press. Films that have superb patient character development and never rely on bollocks karate kid formulae.
That doesn't meant negative stereotypes should persist or people should remain oblivious and not to report or complain about it which is why I am so pleased at least to hear a eloquent voice of dissent on R4 about the Fu Man Chu programme (sorry didn't catch the name but I love you haha).
Rchan point about "out of touch with their roots" I noticed that too, its unfortunate that some of people of chinese origin have much respect their history, culture or language, in more of the extreme cases quite happen to undermine it and over critical of chinese folk.
Phil Ling - Wow Posted 0:15 on 25 August 2010
Hadn't realised this piece would kick off like this. Ok I'll try to be quick with my points:

1. I don't think that racism is the core issue, it's that on a mass media front there is general stereotyping.

2. In the particular examples I'm giving it's that Chinese roles on TV are very reductionist which isn't good, but also limits the characters that Chinese actors can play.

3. There are gret Chinese actors in the UK, but if the casting directors / scriptwriters are not specifically saying lets have a Chinese based character then it's hard to see them on TV (in UK productions).

4. We can do nothing and all individually try our best. I've certainly not suffered in life by being Chinese, in fact in my office (bank) there are scores of ethnic Chinese workers and only one black person. What does that tell you.

5. However, we should not be sitting on our hands doing nothing. The Equal Pay Act 1970 came about becasue women in Dagenham went on strike and said give them fair pay. Even now it's not quite equal for a variety of reasons, but if those women had not acted it would be worse (Film called "Made in Dagenham" is soon to be released on the subject).

6. Therefore those interested should act together on this, those not can stand on the sidelines and carry on doing what they're doing. These things are best done together than individually.

I'll contact Madame Miaow and we'll be in touch with a plan.
MelloYelloFello - Made in China Posted 1:20 on 25 August 2010
Fortunately or unfortunately, we are all set to play a part on the global stage (be it micro-cosmic and or macro-cosmic)particularly, those of us brought up and living in the west;with the mixing and melting of Cultures.A hotch-potch of emulation,integration and for some even the desire for complete separation.

However, it is too late - the water cannot regain its purity since many a man have continued to wade and wash their feet within the shallow streams of Human existance and history.

And it may be percieved that there are persons or a party who are "out of touch of their roots" Consider,a Chinese man who has married a White woman - has he lost his touch of roots?

Or an inverse perspective, can a mixed race child of that one Oriental parent never find (since it is lost?!!)their roots ?

Or does having an English name with a chinese surname mean "out of touch of your roots" ?

Or a Chinese girl who falls in love with a person from another race (other than White or Chinese)have they "lost touch of their roots"?

Or when Hong kong was colonalised by the British for 99 years did that mean those people who fell under the jurisdiction of YOUR Majesty THE QUEEN became less Chinese (due to foriegn influence- think of Marlboro cigaretees and western fashion) and therefore being under the thumb -inferior to the mainland Chinese?Because there were certainly some stems cut from the roots and fruits taken to other shores!

Therefore, it is absolute ludicrousity pompous and condescending to even suggest that anyone is "out of touch of their roots" particularly when we are all reading and posting on a chinese community forum. In fact, you are alluding to some sort of "proper behaviour" or "protocol" whatever that may be? Can I have a copy of the manual?

I add and say,that it is a limited and narrow-minded purist view, croaking out of the caverns of a heritage preservation society which infact is where it should remain- particularly when it stifles and means to invalidate and not rejuvenate.(Not very Lao Tzu like!)

You see there are many valid perspectives and of course that is all relative - such as in the west they say there are conformists (mostly made up of "yes" men) and then there are movers and shakers! Which camp do you think our late brother Bruce Lee came from he was willing to take the risk by going against the grain -get fought down by some Chinese for disclosing the secrets of "Gong-fu" - only for, fast forward 2010 - it is "ok" now, that even our traditionally religious people are making money out of it just like circus clowns- "shaolin monks" just to mention a few examples.

You see it is all about progression- requiring a wholesome base to work from. (Be it a collective of our values and ethics)However,some of us have been exposed and influenced to other cultures more than others - no one is better!

Perhaps, ancient China made the mistake assuming that it was solely the "Central kingdom "(the meaning) whilst the rest of the world was busy in its busy -ness and was not so important.Present times,it looks very likely China will be great again but not until it has to "Buy" into the Western world by learning the ways of the New world and "Sell" its dispensable folk, simply because those in power can.(Bizarely,enough these a loyal serving people to their country!??)

Apologies for my abundance of passion on this subject but I am very aware that it may seem like I am hijacking this article -but ,we need to engage and share ideas.Anyway PL -I do think you are right 100%.

Finally,answers on a Post card cos I'm leaving for the Outer Hebrides and can anyone explain as to why amongst the News presenters on TV who are very pleasant to the eye,The majority of them are of Asian/indian backgrounds, where are our Oriental Sisters -I know there are plenty and many who are very well read and educated. Now -Are you still going to tell me its all misconcieved in our head regarding "misrepresentation" ?
MelloYelloFello - Made in China Posted 1:20 on 25 August 2010
Fortunately or unfortunately, we are all set to play a part on the global stage (be it micro-cosmic and or macro-cosmic)particularly, those of us brought up and living in the west;with the mixing and melting of Cultures.A hotch-potch of emulation,integration and for some even the desire for complete separation.

However, it is too late - the water cannot regain its purity since many a man have continued to wade and wash their feet within the shallow streams of Human existance and history.

And it may be percieved that there are persons or a party who are "out of touch of their roots" Consider,a Chinese man who has married a White woman - has he lost his touch of roots?

Or an inverse perspective, can a mixed race child of that one Oriental parent never find (since it is lost?!!)their roots ?

Or does having an English name with a chinese surname mean "out of touch of your roots" ?

Or a Chinese girl who falls in love with a person from another race (other than White or Chinese)have they "lost touch of their roots"?

Or when Hong kong was colonalised by the British for 99 years did that mean those people who fell under the jurisdiction of YOUR Majesty THE QUEEN became less Chinese (due to foriegn influence- think of Marlboro cigaretees and western fashion) and therefore being under the thumb -inferior to the mainland Chinese?Because there were certainly some stems cut from the roots and fruits taken to other shores!

Therefore, it is absolute ludicrousity pompous and condescending to even suggest that anyone is "out of touch of their roots" particularly when we are all reading and posting on a chinese community forum. In fact, you are alluding to some sort of "proper behaviour" or "protocol" whatever that may be? Can I have a copy of the manual?

I add and say,that it is a limited and narrow-minded purist view, croaking out of the caverns of a heritage preservation society which infact is where it should remain- particularly when it stifles and means to invalidate and not rejuvenate.(Not very Lao Tzu like!)

You see there are many valid perspectives and of course that is all relative - such as in the west they say there are conformists (mostly made up of "yes" men) and then there are movers and shakers! Which camp do you think our late brother Bruce Lee came from he was willing to take the risk by going against the grain -get fought down by some Chinese for disclosing the secrets of "Gong-fu" - only for, fast forward 2010 - it is "ok" now, that even our traditionally religious people are making money out of it just like circus clowns- "shaolin monks" just to mention a few examples.

You see it is all about progression- requiring a wholesome base to work from. (Be it a collective of our values and ethics)However,some of us have been exposed and influenced to other cultures more than others - no one is better!

Perhaps, ancient China made the mistake assuming that it was solely the "Central kingdom "(the meaning) whilst the rest of the world was busy in its busy -ness and was not so important.Present times,it looks very likely China will be great again but not until it has to "Buy" into the Western world by learning the ways of the New world and "Sell" its dispensable folk, simply because those in power can.(Bizarely,enough these a loyal serving people to their country!??)

Apologies for my abundance of passion on this subject but I am very aware that it may seem like I am hijacking this article -but ,we need to engage and share ideas.Anyway PL -I do think you are right 100%.

Finally,answers on a Post card cos I'm leaving for the Outer Hebrides and can anyone explain as to why amongst the News presenters on TV who are very pleasant to the eye,The majority of them are of Asian/indian backgrounds, where are our Oriental Sisters -I know there are plenty and many who are very well read and educated. Now -Are you still going to tell me its all misconcieved in our head regarding "misrepresentation" ?
Josie - views Posted 18:57 on 25 August 2010
Leaving politics etc aside, firstly like to thank PL (for listening and responding)and AC (proactivity) thank you are both winning my support.

About the roots things... its important in the sense its about your past, cultural history, the traces of how you become the way you are and the community in which your culture came from, you don't have to agree with it, but UNDERSTAND it.
It can become a bit schizophrenic (Postmodern usage not medical) with all these fragmented selves if you descended from mixed up cultures and you end up not knowing who you are, i.e classic BBC being; there are some good academic papers written about it.
History is fixed you can't change it it happened, but the future is not, we understand ourselves deeper by looking at the past to see how our ancestors have done things. One way of destroying a community is to destroy its roots.
History has a strange habit of repeating itself.
MelloYelloFello - "Bananas!!?" or is i Posted 1:35 on 26 August 2010
JosieI am compelled to respond regarding 2 points.

i) "Roots" - Please,please read very carefully to what was previously written no where was it mentioned to disregard one's roots.(Such a foolish notion!)It was "interpreted" by some that others are out of touch with their roots and a response was given. What infact was highlighted in the response, were some very close to home scenarios that Chinese(See forums)in the UK are caught in .I am highlighting and or shockingly dis-robing the Conundrum and the seeming inconsistencies or contradictions. (Not making one right or wrong, nor showing a better way of being.) We all have to be aware of the irony and evolution in our day to day ways of being,neither being static but dynamic and changing.

ii)schizophrenic-Please ,can you provide us all the links to these GOOD academic papers or post them - you may have the answer to that million dollar question?(Title of this write??)Again that is a very good way of carting-off an indifferent opinon but "yes" there is unfortunately some people who do need help.

A strong-cultured and orientated individual should be able to immerse themselves and enjoin in the celebration of life with others from different backgrounds and cultures without losing their morals and dignity.

You mentioned "mixed up cultures and end up not knowing who you are" ;are you including famous caucasians who are "licensed!?" to raft into any cultural diversity subsequently,becoming high-earning celebrities without being accused of being mixed-up? (Good for them too!)

You see it has all gone Global you'll be mad to deny it!!(I don't mean to be enslaved by it!)

Incidentally,I had sea-food languine for dinner tonight and I was not trying to be an Italian but to share in my nourishment -pls Google these individual of Oriental decent a not a typical profile- whatever it that may be?

JAMES YEE - is he mixed up- read his story and background?You choose
and for dessert SUZANNE THI HIEN HOOK .
MelloYelloFello - (contd.) Posted 1:50 on 26 August 2010
Sorry but the subject title for the previous entry should read :
"BANANAS" ; ) or is it an increase in abnormal dopamine activity !?
rchan - Woah... Posted 6:18 on 28 August 2010
I'm a little taken back by the fact the use of 'out of touch with their roots' would cause such a reaction.

I am not in anyway advocating a formulaic way on how to be Chinese - far from it. I was putting forward the point that there is little point in writing roles for ethnic Chinese actors if the role is generic and doesn't take into account the subtlety a person ethnic heritage can bring to the character.

A person heritage can influence their views, their perspective on situations in a plot and a good writer should be able to tease out these out of a character and bring it to the fore.

Most of the Chinese characters are indeed stereotyped but thats because they are easier to understand for most British writers. The culture of British born Chinese people is complex and this alone is a massive debate but from personal experience, British Chinese often act with more White British values when interacting with the wider community. Therefore I believe writers are caught between a stereotype or a role better fitting a white face.

Good Example 1:
Star Trek's East Asian characters boosted the diversity in ethnicities and alien races crucial to the exotic dynamic of the show. Simple but effective representation.
Good Example 2:
Sandra Oh in Grey's Anatomy was still to an extent portraying the cold career minded asian that is often cited as a stereotype in America. Her character is deep and emotionally complex though, so this negates just being a simple stereotype.
Alice Chun - Stereotyping in acting roles Posted 1:03 on 31 August 2010
I think everyone approaches this from the wrong direction. The role comes from the script and if the script involves Chinese smugglers then it is reasonable to fill those roles with Chinese actors. The producers do not have a set of Chinese actors and think up a role for them. The approach must be script first then casting. The alternative is to have Caucasian actors in "Yellow-face" which would be offensive.

Personally I found Gemma Chan's role in Sherlock - The Blind Banker enchanting. It is also worth noting that she also played a strong role in Doctor Who - The Waters of Mars and no mention of her race was made or implied. I expect very few people noticed this. So I think we can be too sensitive about these things. By all means lets use Asian people in more general roles in dramas playing bus drivers and nurses but I always feel that it is completely appropriate to use Asian actors in Asian roles as the alternative is much worse.
richard Posted 22:17 on 31 August 2010
yes of course, it is better to have asian actors in asian roles and of course the roles needs to be in the script first!

but an actor friend told me that casting directors may not always choose the 'best' actor to play these roles. not only are they not that well written, especially in terms of dialogue, but interestingly, the white casting director typically goes for actors who can play the stereotype well. So i guess that if the asian actor can play fu manchu really well, then he'll get the job.
Beckie Posted 21:49 on 2 September 2010
richard isn't that a bit like saying its better to get a black person to play a "minstrel", the point is the representation and the symbolism of what the character Fu Manchu signifies.
MELLOYELLO FELLO - Sarcastic Banana Posted 3:22 on 3 September 2010
I am Oriental and the fundamental thing here is that Oriental people are not getting a "look-in", here it counts F**K the evasive intellectualising especially when the BNP or the EDL come to your door ( for bringing your vices to these shores!!) and you won't be able to defend it- Are we sleeping or just massaging or own egos.

There was a 2 -Part Series "real-life" doc. on sex trafficking in Britain.

Guess what they were all Orientals responsible of supplying Prostitutes to Britain (You kinky lot you!!)No other coverage of other cultures responsible......Hooray!!Finally, we get a mass blitz broadcast of a handful of Oriental characters...that look just like you and me. : ) I knew we had a part we can play- you see!!

I might add - they weren't British born chinese they had foreign accents!??? but that would only make us become more divided as a community and less effective and a sitting -duck!!?
(Read prev. comments and Mindsets.)
Sophies world - talk talk... Posted 19:46 on 3 September 2010
Knowledge, "objective" or critical analysis DO matter, you don't win support or creditability by brute force or by crude reductionist arguments alone; make everything appear to be black and white, when there are complex shades of grey, it perhaps would weaken the cause for improved equality.
Maybe a change of tack also needed, one can emphasise the things that are done well, give more praise and attention when things are right and there are numerous examples, I love it when I treated as a valued team member when I don't expect it and don't think about race or other insecurities, which is why I have reasons to be hopeful. Pragmatic pro-action has more creditability when supported by outstanding informed knowledge. It gives more clarity and believabilty.
Alice Chun - Stereotyping Posted 16:58 on 4 September 2010
Now "Ghosts" was good. White Producer, Chinese people portrayed in a variety of roles, exploited and the exploiters with genuine Chinese actors both BBC and Mainlanders in the roles. Does anyone find that offensive or stereotyped?
carl Posted 17:39 on 4 September 2010
so... when.... will we see a doctor Chan? or Detective Wu, or PC Wong, or a John Lee on TV then?
Bloomfield - continuing the debate Posted 19:04 on 6 September 2010
I don't found the "Ghost" documentary offensive because it treated the subject matter of chinese people with an underlying humanity, which is not the usual perspective in the profit driven media market that make snappy compromises for the biggest (non-chinese) audience possible rather than for "arts" sake or for authenicity.
kev - ghosts documentary Posted 3:55 on 8 September 2010
what channel was ghosts on? makes me wanna watch it now
Alice Chun - Ghosts Posted 23:47 on 8 September 2010
You can get it on DVD from Amazon. I think BBC and Channel 4 ran it.

Heart-breaking documentary style film based on Morecambe Bay.
Chinese UK tv show - BBC screenwriter Posted 23:31 on 10 September 2010
Googled aroumd and found this BBC screenwriter and director who has had a chinese series made here already. It is a kid's show but looks great, and stars lots of Chinese actors. There's even a dim sum article on her here too:

http://www.dimsum.co.uk/features/interview-with-jo-ho---creator-of-new-british-chinese-action-drama-spirit-warriors.html

And this is her website with videos of her work:

http://www.myspace.com/missjoho

Looks like she is actually trying to do what we keep saying we need. Strange I haven't really heard much about this series before. Looks like it had a big budget to make it.
Chinese UK tv show - Spirit Warriors Posted 23:40 on 10 September 2010
apparently it's on tv again tomorow, sat 11th, cbbc website shows its coming on bbc hd channel at 3.25. Be interesting to see what its like.
latte please - more and more ching chong Posted 23:40 on 12 September 2010
not much else to say is there really
shrek Posted 20:03 on 13 September 2010
LOL Oh man, we might aswell all chill out and boogie down to "Everybody's Kung Fu dancin!...the moves were fast as lightin!"...
Anonymous Posted 20:05 on 15 September 2010
Meanwhile back at the take-away situated on the corner of the REDNECKDEVIL Housing ESTATE....

Man fu peers frighteningly through the barbed wired counter and cash-till, catching sight of the oncoming local estate kids defiantly placing their BMX bikes against the shop window- yet again.

He shakingly curses and whispers to himself "Jun hei!!- really " before mustering up some strength and aggression to put on his sternest expression pre-empting the oncoming exchange..

..It is 06.30..Farquarson Cheung awakens from a terrible nightmare as the alarm on his I-Phone sounds off booming through the BOSE speaker. He is jubilantly relieved that really it was not his life afterall behind the takeaway counter fearing from some tear-away delinquents and he pinches himself knowing that he is so so so far way from a life like that and that he would not be ever in the proximity of such types!!?His apartment is contained overlooking the wharf, his Sports Car is an head-turner -his city finance job pays him well- although he knows his boss treats him like a tea-servant but thats ok because at the end of the month he has money.The hypocrisy in his pomp ways,whirls deep in his mind for he knows his formula and approach to life is flawed such that if it only rests on the day when he could lose it all - how great is he really....

http://halfandhalf.org.uk/dr.htm

* the writer is not afiliated in anyway to the Organisation.
chinky beats - i think racism is terrible... Posted 23:55 on 21 September 2010
absolutely horrendous. ah well. thank goodness for assimilation. wheres my white bitch when i need her
MELLOYELLOFELLO Posted 19:00 on 22 September 2010
Hey chinkybeats when you talk like that -we won't have an argument to stand on!!!(I could only hope you don't address the missus like that for real!!? Afterall thats another man's daughter you are talking about -pls don't add fuel to the fire!)

Peace bro.
rchan Posted 23:01 on 4 October 2010
just wanted to add a little something to the conversation.

to my complete surprise and perhaps to challenge our narrow perception of what constitutes 'chinese' - one of the most recognisable faces in TV soap opera is none other than Mona Hammond from Eastenders!

She is Chinese-Jamaican and in complete contrast to being stereotyped she enjoys the role without being typecast. Admittedly we could debate forever on the audience's perception of her ethnicity but in principle she completely debunks Phillip Ling's perspective.

So stick it in your pipe and smoke it!
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