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Is Patriotism Possible for a BBC? PDF Print E-mail
Viewpoints
Wednesday, 27 August 2008

As the new Premier League season gets underway and the Olympics Games are officially over, the local tribalism that dominates towns and cities across the United Kingdom returns. As a British-Chinese citizen, I am an ardent Manchester City fan, and also, though I like to say I support China, I am ultimately an England fan. In fact, if you asked, I wouldn’t be able to name 90% of the China squad, though there was a slight sense of sadness when I saw them get miserably beaten during the Olympics.

I’ve been hearing debates about what ‘rights’ someone has to be a fan of a team. Some people believe that you must be from the area in order to be a true follower of that team. So for example, if you’re a Geordie who supports Liverpool, then that’s just plain wrong and there’s no chance that you’ll ever garner the same passion if you were, say, from inner-city Liverpool. But what if you are from the same area as your favoured team that you’ve been supporting them for many years, you’re filled with sadness whenever your team loses, but…you’re Chinese?

There were a couple of recent articles asking who you would be supporting during the Olympics, Chinese potential medallists or the British ones. Well, personally, I wasn’t as suicidal as some of my Chinese friends when Liu Xiang hobbled down that tunnel, but in the same way, I wasn’t that sad when Paula Radcliffe similarly hobbled over the marathon finishing line. Yet, the difference between the national teams and local teams is that whilst many of us BBC’s feel ambiguous when it comes to our national sides, when it comes to locality, we are 100% sure of who we support.

I don’t feel particularly out of place when I’m watching a Man City game, I can sit in a pub, be a bit boisterous and occasionally scream at the T.V. But when it comes to an England game, being sat in a pub and surrounded by other ethnically ‘English’ fans, then it suddenly becomes a bit ‘weirder’ as it were, when you’re the only England fan in the pub who doesn’t look like an England fan. Once, when I went to an England-Japan friendly before Euro 2004, I remember being seated in the England section, and typically getting all sorts of looks by the other fans wondering what I was doing in the ‘home’ section.

Similarly, when it comes to Man City, it almost seems novel when I reveal to others that I am indeed a City fan. Even though I’m from the local area and have supported the team all my life, it still seems as if I’m that Chinese tourist who has picked their favourite team and decided to loosely follow it. I know many of us sit on the fence when it comes to picking a team as, I have read in a few responses, but isn’t it great when you have that feeling of pure irrational support for a team? I guess this is why, as I can never seem to give full fledged support for either England/Britain or China, I’ve transferred this feeling of dogmatic support to locality.

Ultimately, it boils down to that age old saying of ‘I’m a banana: yellow on the outside-white on the inside.’ Yet I guess it’s never as simple as that is it? Perhaps the feeling of Britishness has been replaced by the strong feeling of locality in British-Chinese people. As we can never really place our identities in China or England, is it possible to filter that identity even further to where we are locally from? Because, as a lot of people do, we cannot give pure irrational support for our national sides and instead sit on the fence, what can we support? So forget the banana; what’s yellow on the outside- sky blue on the inside?

Leon Lau

 
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Anonymous - mission statement Posted 19:27 on 2 September 2008
good essay...I was wondering what is the dimsum mission statement?
Is it for the BBC community or a business venture with a blog element?
No one - You worry too much Posted 21:58 on 3 September 2008
insecurity was the first thing that came to my mind with your article. As an individual sitting on the kop day every other week and follow the england home games at wembley and NOT even a BBC .... i don't feel out of place. Maybe its time for you to answer your own question in honesty than rather making it worse for your fellow BBCs. You can't be half way this and half way that. If you know yourself, then you won't worry about others around you ... because it is who you are, not what you are. Dissappointed to see this article not answering the question you have set out. RANT OVER, bbcs
G.A.Brown - Is Patriotism Possible… Posted 2:44 on 4 September 2008
Very interesting observations Leon. When I was younger I too had divided "loyalties" but mine were the result of my parents mix marriage. My mother was a British war bride and my dad a Canadian solider. My dad had also a connection with Australia so I also included them in my countries to root for. As a child I was torn like you who to cheer for. I also had the additional burden of being a army brat never long enough to identify with the communities that I would be living in. I think that as a result I developed a attitude that it does not matter who wins as long as it is enjoyable to watch.

I have only had one hockey team that I have ever followed and that was the Montreal Canadians, and no mater where I moved I was a fan. But when the NHL in its first round of expansion did not include Vancouver I lost interest in the NHL and Montreal.

There was great discussion around this issue that you raised among my friends during these last Olympics, here in Vancouver.

How or who we cheer for is not evidence of our patriotism? We have to recognize that patriotism is a tribal condition.
Editor - Reply to Anonymous Posted 17:31 on 4 September 2008
Pls look at the bottom of the page: "Dimsum.co.uk is the site for the Chinese diaspora. It is a not-for-profit company limited by guarantee and run solely by volunteers."

You can also find out more about us in the "about us" section
BBCfan Posted 19:55 on 8 September 2008
As with all articles, I not sure whether to believe 100% what this piece saying, I know some BBC Arsenal/Chelsea fans they don't go to away games because of potential harrassment; but as a discussion point, oddly the very few times when when I do encounter overt verbal racism is by SOME ardent football fans of course if would be silly to reason with them.
goose Posted 22:04 on 8 September 2008
Just to prompt a few comments, I think the BBC experience is the ultimate reflection of the modern-day cultural alienation. BBCs are not collectively the same and there are very few in numbers.
If you take BBCs parents or overseas chinese and ask them if they are patriotic? Alot are only interested in making money and have total disregard for the state or country. Remember Hong Kong before 1997? Many indigenous patriotic Chinese refer them as selfish and traitors.
Clem Posted 12:23 on 10 September 2008
I think you just highlight a common problem of being a BBC. We think British, but to our peers we are Chinese. Because we are treated differently due to our appearance, we feel a degree of isolation.

I've personally never had a problem supporting England in football, nor any other sport, as this is the country of my birth. So for me, I am patriotic to England, since I know very little about China.
Teck Khong Posted 1:26 on 13 September 2008
Reading the Daily Telegraph (11-9-08), there are parallels between views expressed on this thread and those of Lord Carey.

Lord Carey articulated the ambivalence of a white society that, despite all sincere attempts at racial liberalism and religious tolerance, remains deeply insecure at the prospect of ethnically based cultural dilution. Its relief from anxieties so generated sometimes manifest as self-reassurance – albeit one that is transient and situational – in groups where a significant, more powerful over-arching common interests binds the diverse assemblies.

Ultimately, this prickly conundrum is probably attributable to a widespread human failing of the innate inability to accommodate marked visual differences exaggerated by large numbers, the arbitrary size beyond which unease creeps in. The solutions that will serve to strengthen and unify all of British society lie very firmly with the politicians.

In the meantime, there is nothing incompatible about being Chinese by ethnicity and British by allegiance. Chinese Britons should therefore not have any reason to doubt the legitimacy of their patriotism or indeed their ability to contribute positively to British society while they hold in pride and celebrate their own heritage.
MissWorld Posted 18:25 on 15 September 2008
Being a "BBC" I like to wish and agree with Tech final comments, I have no qualms in supporting Brits; but I think it also depends how you define patriotism and how others to define patriotism. For example a more "right" wing or "left wing view will have different ideologies.
Teck Khong Posted 22:19 on 15 September 2008
Patriotism is the love of one's country and it is by definition above political ideology and polarisation. That is to say the choice of government or the route to governing a country is independent of one's love for one's country,

If a communist loves his country and defends it against attack, then that communist is a patriot while another patriot who is a capitalist and wants to overthrow the communist regime to introduce free market economy cannot be accused of loving his country any less!

I say to all Chinese Britons - as long as you are law-abiding and are happy living in this country, enjoy your lives fully and do not entertain any reservation about being non-White or non-local. Loving this country is the icing on the cake! And you will be respected for that!
Anonymous - Thoughts Posted 20:23 on 16 September 2008
The word patriotism is a loaded term I don't think it can be defined as one single objective truth by anyone and its implications are subtle.
I also like to share dare-I-say-it the idealistic vision mentioned above, however real social life and identity issues are a lot more complex. Its so easy if you are looking from above and if you not poor, how many working class BBCs or Chinese people (majority who are lawful "good" hard working people) or any race people living in the UK are actually happy? Lastly sadly there always be people who will have a problem with Chinese people.
Teck Khong Posted 1:51 on 17 September 2008
"...there always be people who will have a problem with Chinese people" - surely that applies to all sorts of other people too?

Patriotism is a sentiment that has nothing to do with contentment. Unfortunately, there are those who confuse the latter with fulfillment and then introduce social status and financial standing as qualities that are linked to the ability to display patriotism.

Before one can feel a sense of patriotism, there has first to be a sense of belonging.

I have been around too long to be bothered by those who want to make my racial origin an issue of contention, and I hope my fellow Chinese here in Britain will feel the same too. With my background and having weathered the ups and downs in life, I would be pleased if I have given hope and encouragement to those troubled with unease.
eve Posted 20:31 on 19 September 2008
Put it this way if you leave out the word Chinese in "BBC" or in all discussion, then what is the point of this or all discussions here?
Teck Khong Posted 23:48 on 19 September 2008
Eve,

In an ideal world your point is valid, but if you are Chinese, have you ever tried leaving out (or been able to leave out) that "BB" or "B" bit for any substantial length of time?

More to the point, have you been able to leave the "C" bit out?
Adam Posted 20:59 on 22 September 2008
That is a good dipstick poll question!
Edwina Lee Posted 10:35 on 27 September 2008
Very good essay Leon.

Football supporting is a very tribal world. Your observation that inner city Liverpool supporters think that their only true supporters are from the inner city demonstrates the extent of tribalism.
However, football icons like David Beckham are global. He is admired arcoss the world crossing national boundaries.

I love the Spice Girls, but 1/2 the country hate them for leading people to aspire. Some people really hate Sporty Spice (Mel-C) for claiming she is from Manchester (she came from near Manchester).

Yet, the Spice Girls are national icons of Britain.

Modern Britain has lost its way when it comes to patriotism as a result. It is not surprising that anyone expressing loyalty to country in public does not feel 100% comfortable whoever you are, for there are always a large section of people who wants to shout you down.
Teck Khong Posted 23:17 on 27 September 2008
Leon Yau poses the question:

"Is patriotism possible for a BBC?"

The nub of the issue has not really been addressed.

The discussions and comments here seem to suggest a need – even yearning – for recognition and approbation by indigenous WASP to reassure a Chinese person's nationalistic love and defence for Britain and of all things British.

Patriotism is a sentiment that is normally in the background, roused in circumstances where one's country interests are under threat. No qualification is needed. Period.
Hot Chinese Chips Posted 7:51 on 29 September 2008
Very interesting article which raises many interesting questions.

I was born in the UK and lived there until my adult life, then tried living in north america for a few years too. I never ever considered living in Hong Kong, but that's where I am now.

Hong Kong is a very different place to what it was ten years ago. There are many BBCs and ABCs who live in Hong Kong.

If the author of the article is looking for acceptance on the level of his caucasian peers in the UK, that will never happen. Nor will it happen in anywhere else in the world where the society is predominantly white. You will be accepted, but you will always been seen as different.

When I was growing up in the UK, I always wanted to be 'one of the lads'. But I knew I wasn't, my grandfather didn't fight for Britain in WW1 and WW2. There aren't any Chinese players in most of the local teams. These are perhaps small things, but they accumulate to slowly set you apart from the 'natives'.

In Hong Kong, I have experienced for the first time in my life, what it is to be 'one of the lads', we're all brothers here and look out for each other. I blend in without needing to try. I walk into a nightclub and strangers talk to me. It's a level of acceptance that needs to be experienced for any BBC who has never been to Hong Kong.

When you have experienced true unconditional acceptance by your peers, then maybe you can start to talk about patriotism. Patriotism does not earn your acceptance, because only others can give you that.
Teck Khong Posted 9:43 on 29 September 2008
China's rise as an economic power will have profound influence in international politics and it will bring unimaginable benefits to overseas Chinese.

The Chinese diaspora will have to learn how to become beneficiaries of the global power shift.
Another bbc Posted 20:40 on 29 September 2008
Some good comments and debate, I know what "Hot Chinese Chips" is saying, just to add, the older 1st generation because they grew up already surrounded by accepting chinese ppl all the time they don't question their culture. That is part of the misunderstanding of the old and young and of different upbringing. Also patriotism is not just about asserting identity and place, but about a greater "love" as romantically protrayed in the Motorcycle Diaries. I haven't really meet anyone that is truly patriotic only on TV or romantic fiction, nor do many ppl want to. Perhaps one can find more of this "acceptance" and "understanding" as opposed to "patriotism" by mixing with more BBCs or chinese people, who are also feeling the same way.
Hot Chinese Chips Posted 11:01 on 30 September 2008
Yes, I agree with 'Another bbc', that true patriotism rarely exists in real life to the levels portrayed in movies. The only time that you do see patriotism is when the country's people have to unite together in times of war against a common enemy, but then you can see that the true purpose of patriotism is to serve a political agenda. The BNP is known to romanticize the notion of patriotism, as did the National Socialist Nazis.
The problem that many BBCs face, and that I have also faced is the identity crisis problem of growing up in the UK. Supporting a British football team does NOT make you more British, nor getting drunk at the local pub. In fact, I feel that doing these things in order to be accepted makes your character weaker.
In order to grow as an individual, you must not think about what you MUST do, but rather what you WANT to do. In this way, you will gain much more respect and the confidence that you gain by being who you are will make you a person that many people will want to know. And if all BBCs started thinking more like this, then as a minority we'd earn much more respect.
Hot Chinese Chips Posted 11:34 on 30 September 2008
I should have added this in my last post, but as a BBC, it was not really your choice to be born in the UK, you should remember that. The world is so big, that you can choose which country you want to live in. There is nothing tying you to the UK, least of all patriotism. Just remember that you are special because you are connected to two different cultures, and that allows you to have a unique perspective about the world that many people are not priviledged to have.
Patriotism demands that you want the best for your country, but how can you provide that if you don't even know what's good for yourself? The best way to discover yourself is to live outside the environment that you are accustomed to. Explore the world, meet new people, etc.
I have a free non-profit group in Hong Kong that brings together BBCs and those who grew up overseas. Next time you're in Hong Kong, come and party with us... http://expat.meetup.com/221/
Amber - New Magazine Posted 16:00 on 1 October 2008
Hey,

has anyone seen this free business magazine:

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nxteu/200809_nxtmanchester/index.php#/0
medialies Posted 0:49 on 5 December 2008
Teck Khong says that the rise of China as a major power will bring "unimaginable" benefits to overseas Chinese but i think that is a very superficial analysis of a very complex issue. I happen to think that the rise of China as a wannabe superpower is going to bring more latent biases to the fore by foreign states such as the UK and US and by people of other countries. Look at how the media is already focussing on the negative side of the impact of China on the world from its adventures in African nations to the Olympics to its shoddy products which on the ground actually means there is a rise in racism against overseas Chinese.

Lets not forget patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
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