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Viewpoints
Friday, 17 October 2008

 

The overseas Chinese are very small. In Asian countries they have the largest Chinese communities. In Britain there are only half a million Chinese and we have been here for hundreds of years. Is that strange to anyone?

Just half million of Chinese when there is around 60 million people in the UK - that is less than 1 percent! We’re kind of insignificant. I do not live in a city though I do visit Manchester sometimes and there are many Chinese there such as in Chinese restaurants, Chinatown where there are students and people young and old that go out on a Sunday. But outside of these places we are sometimes rarely seen.

Whether we want to believe it not, the truth is that the Chinese have had a long history for not being united – as we like to fight each other. Sorry there isn't a better way to put it. Any historian (who knows Chinese history) will tell you that the Chinese fought each other thousands of years ago. It’s nothing new. Even during the last hundred years or so, it happened during the Mao era. Even Deng Xiao Ping did it. Though I have mountains of respect of what he did for China. He was the man that made it what China is today.

Sadly he ordered the firing on Chinese students in Tiananmen Square, only in 1989. I have only recently found this site and now will continue to contribute my views. How united are we today? I am not so sure. Have we improved? Maybe it’s because of the amount of ethnic groups in China that is a reason for conflict - northern and southern differences, different cultures and regional differences.

Our population in the UK is small. The Chinese community will grow and prosper and be more of benefit to the general community and to our fellow Chinese if we unite. Not just in organised Chinese organisations and websites but across the nation such as in schools and colleges. Other groups and places, even if we see each other the street we should warm to each other and interact.

I am Chinese. I like all Chinese people. We are all the same. I am not someone who wants to fight for Chinese rights or anything like that. I am just pointing out an issue that has affected the Chinese for thousands of years. And it seems that our past has somewhat affected our present. Could it affect our future? What do you think? If you are Chinese and would like to email me for a friendly chat. Please give me an email on This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it

 

James K. Li

 
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Teck Khong Posted 20:22 on 23 October 2008
James,

Your noble sentiment is a tribute to your strong sense of cultural identity and is not only a reason for all Chinese to be proud of but I believe it can be safely extrapolated as a quality that all humanity can benefit from.

Why do I say that? It's because genuine empathy is kind regardless of race or station in life.

Best wishes to you!
Angry chinese woman - awful Posted 21:17 on 25 October 2008
What a badly written article.

Is this supposed to be more like an opinion column? It sure as hell isn't a real factual article, "Any historian (who knows Chinese history) will tell you that the Chinese fought each other thousands of years ago." How very scientific. LOL

Oh btw dimsum maybe it's because you have les and less contributors, but please I'd rather you put up nothing than rubbish like this. It is so infuriating.

Oh and if you are going to run columns please have someone interesting to write them...
Teck Khong Posted 1:23 on 26 October 2008
I think it is uncharitable to pillory James's article, the essence of which is a sincere expression of kinship and a genuine exhortation for fellow Chinese to work for their common good.

Were these columns meant for exclusive philosophical exposition or virtuosity in political discourse, few if any of the articles would be worthy of being published.

However, Dim Sum is I believe a site that encourages the development of friendships and the socio-political progress of the Chinese Britons.

As such both the efforts of James and the vision of Dim Sum's board are to be congratulated.
Angry woman Posted 4:04 on 26 October 2008
These are things that can be left for the forum. Anything of these nature:- unoriginal and stating of the obvious should not be published.

It is irrelevant how sincere James is in this column. It would be far more interesting if he were able to shed some light into how he proposes to make differences or provide at least some suggestion.

I don't know this James person, I have of his background, but based on this article, James is no journalist.

It makes me giggle how you applaud him not for his writing or opinion but his "sincere expression of kinship." Quite frankly, who cares for it?

We shouldn't confuse dimsum.co.uk for a tedious blog.
Passer-by Posted 10:39 on 26 October 2008
Dear Angry Woman,

You are I believe probably criticising a lack of intellectual distinction and organisation that you would find, for example, in the Daily Telegraph or the Times.

Maybe a good starting point to address your feelings then would be for you to approach Dim Sum, even offer to join their Board, and impart to them your wisdom.
kickass Posted 10:57 on 26 October 2008
Well done! There are not many westernised chinese men who are prepared to stick their neck out; be ridiculed and pillored. You will get better the more you write. Thanks for contribution from Angry Woman for reproducing a typical social scene.
Teck Khong Posted 11:57 on 26 October 2008
Thank you, 'kickass' and I agree practice makes perfect.

A strange nom de plume, I must say, but I usually prefer to communicate in the open although I was a 'Passer-by' to be less confrontational!
pensggs - squabbles Posted 14:11 on 26 October 2008
Inter Chinese squabbles like all family squabbles sometimes gets out of hand, especially where emotions are involved. it does not mean we will not unite when faced with attacks from outsiders. To draw conclusion based upon hearsay is grossly irresponsible.

We live in a country of 'free speech' and many countries where 'one power' presides, no such facility exists. we should treasure this citizen right which we inherit from the host society and used it to our advantage. I, therefore, congratulate you for 'writing' what you, James, think, feel and understand about the Chinese Society in UK. The fact I do not agree with you is irrelevant.

I consider myself an international Chinese with no real affinity to any one group. In my lifetime, I work professionally in the Western job arena, and the later part of my life in the Chinese job arena. There are many discriminations by Chinese towards Chinese based upon assumptions and preception. I face this discrimination between staff v. staff; employer v. staff and staff v. clients, clients v. chinese staff, clients v. white staff.

When I worked in the Western job areana I maintained my Chinese name to differentiate myself; when I worked in the Chinese arean, I used by adopted western name. This is intentioanlly done for personal reasons.

There are unique situations all other ethnic minorities will face in UK society. There are unique situations, all immigrants will face in any host countries. Why are we hitting our heads against a brickwall, when we can use a hammer. Using our heads as a weapon will injure and harm us personally. Using the right tools, we grow as individuals in our quest for equal treatment as a fellow human being.

I have worked with over 50 white youngsters, some now professors, teachers, film directors, politicians, housewifes, unmarried mothers, accountants, teachers, lecturers, entrepreneur, as well as being mothers, fathers, husbands. Some of them take away from me a respect for Chinese culture and work ethics.

I am just a pebble in the 'BIG BIG OCEAN' but even a pebble will cost waves to be formed around itself when thrown into a pool of murky water.

I treasure my freedom of speech, I treasure the ability to write what I wished to write in Dimsum when it does not take the rights of others away.

Keep it up Dimsum. If we allowed a few 'closed minded wreckers ' to rule the roast, it would be a sad day indeed.
kickass Posted 14:20 on 26 October 2008
hi teck khong, yes it is a strange nom de plume. By coincident I was thinking about branding this morning. Chinese companies usually have ridiculous names like Billion-Golden-Yuan. I am having the same problem of giving myself an attractive name. The best I can come up with is Golden Peony, How about Heck Tech? Any suggestion?
Teck Khong Posted 15:05 on 26 October 2008
If wealth is your thing, how about Euroriental or Golden Pound? Your suggestion doesn't become you, somehow!

Have fun!
Angry Woman Posted 1:15 on 27 October 2008
I really can't understand why I am being attacked. As previously mentioned, I have no problem about James' thoughts or opinion, and in fact mention that the ideal place would be the forum. I am merely stating that this should not be published as an article because quite clearly it is not so.

I love being called a a "closed minded wrecker" by somebody who entitles a reply "squabble" and continues to complain about the hardship of her life as an "international chinese."

Could it be perhaps that all these squabbles you talk of are caused by none other than yourself?

I would like to hear from Dimsum about how they feel about this article and whether it should really be granted the privilege of being published...
pensggs - Anger Posted 10:36 on 27 October 2008
Dear Angry Woman

Attributing every 'remarks' and every 'discussion' in any forum where you appear to contribute personally makes you an 'ANGRY WOMAN'.

Anger is self destructive. You appear to apply a negative stance. The word 'squabbles' was not intended for you but if the 'cap fits', I have no problem with that.

As your conclusion about my complaints of hardship, once again another negative stance. I derived great enjoymant and joy satisfaction from working in an area whereby I am not complaining about 'the woes of being a Chinese in UK' but working in a job I enjoyed, with people I enjoyed and the satisfaction of changing and challenging perceptions of Chineseness.

Genorsity of the mind and genorsity of the heart will allow you to be more 'embracing' of the frailities of others and definitely less of the 'ANGRY WOMAN'.

My apologise, the wave of this little pebble had caused some much grief.
Angry Woman Posted 12:11 on 27 October 2008
What on Earth are you talking about?
resident Posted 12:33 on 27 October 2008
rabble! rabble rabble! rabble rabble!
hmmm Posted 21:41 on 27 October 2008
Is it spin?
Anonymous Posted 19:56 on 28 October 2008
Actually this thread is not boring at least different opinions are expressed.
James K. Li - hi Posted 10:40 on 30 October 2008
Hello there. Thanks to the people who support my viewpoint. It is only an opinion and others can have their own. I am not a professional writer and I have not claimed I am anything of that sort. I didn't think that the dimsum community was for pro writers. My article/writing is short because in honesty I find other articles too long and boring. I don't bother reading them all the way through but thats just me. I had left my email but so far have only received one email the last time I checked. I welcome people to contact me. Let's unite just that little bit more. All best.
B Posted 21:50 on 30 October 2008
James, as if you need reassuring, as a reader I welcome contributors such as yourself, it makes the discussions more real and adds more light and shade to the debate. The good thing is that you bothered to respond which is more than what I can say about other so-called journo with big egos. Don't be discouraged by criticism it would only make you stronger.
Duck Posted 16:18 on 4 November 2008
I don't get it. Whats the point of this article? Asking BBC's to be united? Surely there's a more eloquent way to do this than a badly written article which doesn't say anything useful.

Just another viewpoint that doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. It makes me wonder why I even take the time to look on dimsum.
Gerry Posted 18:39 on 5 November 2008
I'm all in favour of free speech (to a point) and fair dues to the author for contributing.

However, I don't really know what he's trying to say. For one, linking the fact that we are not united enough to political disunity and Tianemen Square etc seems a bit facile. The reason I don't embrace another Chinese person on the street just because they're Chinese is because it's WEIRD and credulous, not because disunity runs in my blood; not because they're of a different ethnic group, and not because I'm trying to incite hatred within my community.

Secondly, if you're asking 'Should we be more United?' Well...yeah. Of course we SHOULD be more united, but it's a matter of how, and how much? Are we not united enough? Am I really supposed to embrace the other Chinese person in town just because of his race? Just seems a bit naive of a question that's all.

Finally, you say 'The overseas Chinese are very small. In Asian countries they have the largest Chinese communities. In Britain there are only half a million Chinese and we have been here for hundreds of years. Is that strange to anyone?' Well to me it doesn't seem that strange, as China is in ASIA, and hence their overseas Chinese communities are understandably larger as it's in the same Continent as China.

Hope that's not too damning; just trying to show why I find this article a bit naive and not particularly insightful.
James - still small Posted 14:16 on 7 November 2008
It has been estimated that there is around 40 million chinese outside of China. That includes the chinese in other asian countries excluding China. There is 60 million people on this little english island. You still think there are many chinese outside of China?

Yes I know there are large chinese communities in Asia, but how you know their united? What am trying to say is we should we be more united. How much? A lot more.

I have rarely seen us the chinese warm to each other or unite like the indians, pakastani and so on, or blacks and the english. I cannot comment on other nationalities as I have not witnessed it. Also before people say that chinese are united in some way. I do not observe in every area where chinese are and see if their united. It is just from my experience and it is only my opinion.
Anonymous Posted 20:22 on 5 November 2008
Its sometimes the comments above such as Gerry et al, rather than the writer in this case (sorry!), that is more interesting. But i wouldn't mind the odd "poor" writer, if subsequently a good discussion kicks off. It so boring when there is a blank screen and no one replies to questions.
linda lau Posted 12:45 on 6 November 2008
Wow! Couldn't help but wade into this.

There I was, scrolling through the different articles in the dimsum website, and lo and behold...a squabble!

James, I think your article is insightful as it describes exactly what you think and feel. Nobody should be in doubt that this website is a public space and hence, anybody can contribute their two-pence worth. BUT the reaction from Angry Woman is way out of proportion, I think. Er...calm down. It's just an opinion (to paraphrase Michael Winner).

I'm not bothered whether James is a pro-journo or just a hack-wannabe; he has the right to express his opinion/thoughts without being censured by readers. He shouldn't have to hire a sub to edit/proof his piece before publishing because he's not being paid to write the piece in the first place. If you don't like it, you can say so but please, my fellow Chinese, let's be civilised and considerate.

Should we Chinese be more united? Yes, we should. Are we united? No, we're not. Why not? Because we, as a culture, like to dwell on similarities and uniformity (which is good). We are leery of being seen to celebrate differences (need to improve). That's why when I say 'hi' to some Chinese in my neck of the woods, they hesitate, clock my accented cantonese and deem that I am not sufficiently Chinese to deserve a friendly response. Sigh...i just move on with my life.

Btw, I was a professional journalist, writing in English. Difference of opinion is welcome and encouraged. If you want to vent your spleen, please package with wit and humour; not anger and malice. Have a nice day!
James Posted 19:10 on 7 November 2008
Hi Linda, your words are gracious and thankyou for your support.
SK - Should we be more united? Posted 0:07 on 24 November 2008
After reading all the view points, I can't help but add my two bits in. One thing we Chiness are bunch of reciest to our own kind. Lets drope our guard and talk to each other or just a smile that will be a starting point to be united.
Kathy - why oh why? Posted 23:35 on 11 December 2008
James had wrote this under "viewpoints" so let him express himself how he finds fit.

What's annoying reading through all these replies is how everyone is trying to sound so smart by using more expressive words, trying so hard to be clever, lighten up everyone...."dai gah g gey yun!" if you can't let a fellow chinese person say what he likes how do you expect us to be excepted by other ethnics? just by using their language correctly does not impress them, but by being united shows that we are not ashamed and maybe they would treat us better.
English - Dim Sum Posted 5:32 on 13 December 2008
I am an englishman looking to settle in HK. I stumbled upon this by accident. I was looking for a good dim sum restaruant in Hong Kong, taxi drivers keep telling me it aint what it used to be.

James posting and the responses have been very intersting, it made me ask myself a few questions, both as a native englishman, and as somebody who has settled in another country.

Why should people be more united / friendly just because they are the same colour / ethnicity?

Does this not infer that you should be less united /friendly to others?

Why should the native population show you any compassion / tolerance if you treat them worse than you treat your "own"?

I certainly will not be going out of my way to treat the english any better than the chinese whilst I am in Hong Kong. James seems to suggest that chinese should treat the chinese better than the english whilst in england. Or have I missed the point?
saf - excelent Posted 17:11 on 24 December 2008
kickass wrote:
Well done! There are not many westernised chinese men who are prepared to stick their neck out; be ridiculed and pillored. You will get better the more you write. Thanks for contribution from Angry Woman for reproducing a typical social scene.
Andy - The article misses the point Posted 10:31 on 12 May 2009
I think the article completely misses the point.

In my life in the UK, the nastiest people I have come across all happen to be Chinese. This is also true for all of my friends.

The author states that the UK Chinese community is small. This is true, but it also makes it easier for nasty innuendo to do their rounds.

Personally I try to stay away from the Chinese community as much as I can help it. I find English people much easier to deal with. And I am HKBC not BBC!

Rather than just calling for us to be more "united" (in what?), perhaps we should look within ourselves for the true reason.

Of course, we should be more united, as much as we should show more concern towards each other, recycle more, turn up to vote, etc. But without any analysis of the reasons why this is not the case, things are not going to change short of waving a magic wand.
Kyu Posted 15:36 on 23 August 2009
This article made me think of a person when I asked him for some help, I asked him to
contribute a story towards my book about being Chinese in Britian, his response was "what!
what are you trying to get out of it?" what am I going to get out of it? you want me to write
your book? If I were a publisher, I would not be interested in your idea? and off course
that was not how I felt? then one girl suggested, how about saying "I was wondering if you had a
story to share for my book?"....As my english is abit cr*p, just one word would of made
things more gentle! I understand how James feel because I too could not use words
like a pro journalist and go through moments I could not fully express how I feel and misunderstandings
accur. I agree that Chinese people in the UK should be more united and visible? why cant we?
Am sure we are capible with all those pro qualifications! You never know? One day We might have a
Chinese president running the UK! Thats why am writing this book, I want to give Chinese people a
bigger voice in the UK and want to show the importance of discovering your roots and respecting
your culture. And If it all turns out to be aload of turd! at least I've done something for the
Chinese commuinity. Lets all stand up, more action than talking and especially those with pro
journalist skills! You can use it more wisly to prosuade those to do more good instead of complaining
all the time! and If you have a story to share please visit my website: www.kevyu.com/bpohistory.html
or email me on: kfandc@live.co.uk.
Would appriciate your help Thank you very much for your time.

KYU
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